Not impressed by dealer ...
Discussion
Not impressed by my Volvo dealer today. My car has developed an intermittant 'whine' at idle (more of a high pitched buzz, like something is resonating - and it doesn't change pitch with engine speed, but normally stops) managed to nip it up to the dealer on Sat, where they heard it and advised to book it in.
So, took a day off work, booked in for today, get to the dealer at 8.00 and of course it won't do it. Agree that I can pop back if it develops.
Mid afternon, notice the noise, I'm a few hunderd yards from the dealer so head over and pull up by the workshop. The mechanic I saw earlier sees me and comes out for a listen.
He can't pinpoint it for sure, but says it sounds like it's coming from the aux water pump (electric). Normally, the noise disappears with a slight rise in engine speed, but not today. I'm not totally convinced at this point (the aux water pump I believe only runs with the engine off during the stop/ start feature, to keep water circulating for the heater) and as the car is running and I'm struggling to see why the 2nd water pump is. However, I understand how hard these noises are to find, and decide that perhaps he's right.
Someone who I presume is the workshop manager wanders over at this point, and says that there is a phone call for the mechanic, I figure we're about done so get in the car to leave.
Go to pull away and the noise disappears, let it idle again and it returns, so the behaviour has just changed from when I was just speaking with the mechanic, therefore I rightly or wrongly believe that this warrents further investigation. I sit in the car, and the chap who booked the car in comes over, I explain the situation and he says he'll ask the mechanic to pop out again.
Whilst I'm waiting the workshop manager re-appears and states that in the future would I not just walk into the workshop to speak with a mechanic, and instead go to reception. I explained that I didn't, the mechanic saw me and came out as we agreed this morning. I also added that I couldn't turn the car off to go into the reception, as the noise would probably not reoccur, and I couldn't leave it running unattended.
He then explained that he couldn't spare any more time on it, as extra work had been booked in. As it was agreed that I would come back during the day if the noise re-occurred, I politly pointed out that this wasn't my problem, the car was booked in for today, and, I had taken a day off.
Reluctantly he agrees to let the mechanic take a look, they pop it on the ramp and I walk over to Tescos for a drink.
Outcome is that they can find no cause to warrent further in investigation, and that the noise is probably 'normal'. I point out that if it was normal, why has not done it since day one, only appearing a week or so back. Strangly, no answer to that.
Back in the days when I worked as an engineer (for a certain large motor co), I was actually at one point working as a noise/ vibration and harshness engineer - trust me, this noise is not normal.
I feel a visit to another dealer coming on ...
So, took a day off work, booked in for today, get to the dealer at 8.00 and of course it won't do it. Agree that I can pop back if it develops.
Mid afternon, notice the noise, I'm a few hunderd yards from the dealer so head over and pull up by the workshop. The mechanic I saw earlier sees me and comes out for a listen.
He can't pinpoint it for sure, but says it sounds like it's coming from the aux water pump (electric). Normally, the noise disappears with a slight rise in engine speed, but not today. I'm not totally convinced at this point (the aux water pump I believe only runs with the engine off during the stop/ start feature, to keep water circulating for the heater) and as the car is running and I'm struggling to see why the 2nd water pump is. However, I understand how hard these noises are to find, and decide that perhaps he's right.
Someone who I presume is the workshop manager wanders over at this point, and says that there is a phone call for the mechanic, I figure we're about done so get in the car to leave.
Go to pull away and the noise disappears, let it idle again and it returns, so the behaviour has just changed from when I was just speaking with the mechanic, therefore I rightly or wrongly believe that this warrents further investigation. I sit in the car, and the chap who booked the car in comes over, I explain the situation and he says he'll ask the mechanic to pop out again.
Whilst I'm waiting the workshop manager re-appears and states that in the future would I not just walk into the workshop to speak with a mechanic, and instead go to reception. I explained that I didn't, the mechanic saw me and came out as we agreed this morning. I also added that I couldn't turn the car off to go into the reception, as the noise would probably not reoccur, and I couldn't leave it running unattended.
He then explained that he couldn't spare any more time on it, as extra work had been booked in. As it was agreed that I would come back during the day if the noise re-occurred, I politly pointed out that this wasn't my problem, the car was booked in for today, and, I had taken a day off.
Reluctantly he agrees to let the mechanic take a look, they pop it on the ramp and I walk over to Tescos for a drink.
Outcome is that they can find no cause to warrent further in investigation, and that the noise is probably 'normal'. I point out that if it was normal, why has not done it since day one, only appearing a week or so back. Strangly, no answer to that.
Back in the days when I worked as an engineer (for a certain large motor co), I was actually at one point working as a noise/ vibration and harshness engineer - trust me, this noise is not normal.
I feel a visit to another dealer coming on ...
billyliar said:
I'm neither agreeing or disagreeing with the above comments, but how do dealers operate then?
If work on car = profit, then smiling face + how can we help sir?If work on car = pain in the arse niggly fault that is difficult to diagnose and takes up technicians time they could be spent on servicing and making a profit, then scowling face + "it's normal"
8400rpm said:
billyliar said:
I'm neither agreeing or disagreeing with the above comments, but how do dealers operate then?
If work on car = profit, then smiling face + how can we help sir?If work on car = pain in the arse niggly fault that is difficult to diagnose and takes up technicians time they could be spent on servicing and making a profit, then scowling face + "it's normal"
Also, by your reckoning, all warranty work can be put down to "Nah, its just normal mate" no matter what?
billyliar said:
I was always under the impression they welcomed warranty work as it's a decent source of guaranteed revenue...
In some ways, yes, but the manufacturers squeeze the dealers pretty hard on margins on warranty work so although it's guaranteed turnover it's not necessarily as profitable as walk-in customer work. The warranty work has stringent procedures, parts you must change (whether they need to or not) and fixed durations so the manufacturer won't pay the dealer more if the work takes longer than how long they say it should. The Hitman said:
8400rpm said:
billyliar said:
I'm neither agreeing or disagreeing with the above comments, but how do dealers operate then?
If work on car = profit, then smiling face + how can we help sir?If work on car = pain in the arse niggly fault that is difficult to diagnose and takes up technicians time they could be spent on servicing and making a profit, then scowling face + "it's normal"
Also, by your reckoning, all warranty work can be put down to "Nah, its just normal mate" no matter what?
Niggly, hard to diagnose warranty work is something they avoid at all costs.
The Hitman said:
Also, by your reckoning, all warranty work can be put down to "Nah, its just normal mate" no matter what?
It's not warranty work unless they find something to fix, and even then the manufacturer might reject whatever solution the dealer comes up with.That's the issue for the service manager (who is heavily bonused based on the workshop's income) - a mechanic spends some time trying to diagnose a problem, fails, and the workshop gets no payment for that time. Hence you get some dealers now asking you to agree to pay for diagnostic work in the event of NFF even if the car is under warranty.
... lets see what they make of this - email on it's way to Volvo (needs checking yet for puntuation and spelling ...)
Dear Sir,
I own a C30 1.6 s/s (reg- HJ10 XXX), which I bought new in March 2010. I write to you with regard to an issue with the vehicle and my recent experience at one of your dealers, xxx.
Within the past few days, it has developed a noise at idle, best descripbed as a high pitched buzz, as if something is resonating. It doesn't change pitch
with engine speed, but normally stops as soon as the engine revs rise even if by an almost undetectable amount. The issue is intermittant, though appears to be detectable at least once a day.
The noise, has not occured previously to these past few days, I am 100% certain of that.
I took the car up to the dealer last Saturday, where they were able to hear the nosie, and suggested I booked it in.
Having taken a day off work, I arrived at the dealer at 8.00 Thursday (3rd June) morning and typically, as is often the case, the noise was not present. We agreed that I could return if it developed at any point during the day.
Mid afternon, I noticed the noise, I returned to the dealer and pulled up by the workshop. The mechanic I spoke to earlier saw me and came out to investigate. He was unable to pinpoint the cause, but explained that it sounded like it was coming from the aux water pump. Normally, the noise disappears with a slight increase in engine speed, as previously mentioned, but unusally for the first time, it didn't.
A gentleman, who I presume was the workshop manager came over (I didn't catch his name), and said that there was a phone call for the mechanic. After a moment or two he became insistant that the mechanic took the phone call. The fact that he (the mechanic) was talking to me, a customer, appeared to have escaped his attention.
I got in the car to leave, as I pulled away the noise suddenly disappeared, I let it idle again and it returned, As the behaviour had suddenly changed from when I was just speaking with the mechanic, I rightly or wrongly believed that this required further investigation. I waited in the car, for the mechanic to
return from his phone call. Just then, the gentleman who booked the car in saw me and came over, I explained the situation and he said he'd ask the mechanic to pop out again.
Whilst I was waiting the workshop manager re-appeared and stated that in the future would I not just walk into the workshop to speak with a mechanic, and instead go to reception. I was taken aback by his somewhat abrupt approach and I explained that I hadn't done as he had suggested, and in fact the mechanic had seen me as I pulled up and came out, as we had agreed that morning. I also added that I couldn't turn the car off to go into the reception anyhow, as the noise would probably not reoccur when the car was re-started, and I was of course unable to leave it running unattended.
He then explained that he couldn't spare any more time on it, as the mechanic had spent 10 minutes on it already and extra additional work had been booked in. As it had been agreed that I would come back during the day if the noise re-occurred, I politly pointed out that this wasn't my problem, the car had been booked in for today, and, additionally I had taken a day off. I added that as the noise was intermittant, how else was I expected to resolve it.
He agreed to let the mechanic take a look with a clear level of reluctance, the car was taken into the workshop and I went to a local shop to buy a drink.
On my return the workshop manager explained that they could find no cause to warrent further investigation, and that he noise is 'probably normal'. I enquired as to where the noise was coming from, and he admitted that they were unable to say. It was very clear that he had no interest in my issues, and wanted me out of the door as quickly as possible.
Let me clarify some points:
1. 'Probably normal' is not a satisfactory answer.
2. If the noise is 'normal' I would expect a Volvo dealer to be able to tell me what it was.
3. If the dealer cannot tell me what the noise is, how can they say that it requires no further investigation.
4. A noise that deveops only after 3500 miles, is not normal. Why was it not apparent previously ?
For Volvo, perhaps my car is just another unit sold. From my perspective, it is a considerable investment approaching £20000. I made the decision to buy a C30 based on brand value, and the reputation of Volvos reliability and build quality. It is therefore totally unacceptable that I should be expected to live with an undiagnosed issue on a car that is still under warranty and just 3 months old.
Unknown to the workshop manager, my backgroud is in Mechanical Engineering, and I worked at one point for Ford Motor Company as a 'Noise, Vibration and Harshness Engineer' and I therefore speak with some authority on this matter. I appreciate that it may indeed turn out that the issue is either minor or has some simple explanation. However, as of the moment, the car is 'behaving' in a way it has not done before so something must have changed, and therefore it is reasonable that this is investigated as a warranty issue.
The workshop managers approach and attitude has caused me to loose significant confidence in Volvo dealers ability to take care of, and show an interest in their customers. I do not expect to be 'fobbed' off having been told that they have already looked at it for 10 minutes. I will remind you that the dealer recommended I booked it in, so clearly, at that point, they must have felt further investigation was required.
Given Volvos brand values, which I am sure you are very proud of, you will agree that this is a less than satisfactury situation.
I would suggest therefore that a Volvo representative is assigned to work with the dealer to oversee this problem to completion. If this means the car is inspected by a Volvo specialist then so be it. Additionally, I expect to be kept mobile with a loan vehicle during this process.
I must add that I have no complaint with the mechanic, who was friendly and approachable, nor with the gentlemean who booked the car in.
As I have now logged this issue with Volvo I trust that my concerns will be addressed appropriately.
Dear Sir,
I own a C30 1.6 s/s (reg- HJ10 XXX), which I bought new in March 2010. I write to you with regard to an issue with the vehicle and my recent experience at one of your dealers, xxx.
Within the past few days, it has developed a noise at idle, best descripbed as a high pitched buzz, as if something is resonating. It doesn't change pitch
with engine speed, but normally stops as soon as the engine revs rise even if by an almost undetectable amount. The issue is intermittant, though appears to be detectable at least once a day.
The noise, has not occured previously to these past few days, I am 100% certain of that.
I took the car up to the dealer last Saturday, where they were able to hear the nosie, and suggested I booked it in.
Having taken a day off work, I arrived at the dealer at 8.00 Thursday (3rd June) morning and typically, as is often the case, the noise was not present. We agreed that I could return if it developed at any point during the day.
Mid afternon, I noticed the noise, I returned to the dealer and pulled up by the workshop. The mechanic I spoke to earlier saw me and came out to investigate. He was unable to pinpoint the cause, but explained that it sounded like it was coming from the aux water pump. Normally, the noise disappears with a slight increase in engine speed, as previously mentioned, but unusally for the first time, it didn't.
A gentleman, who I presume was the workshop manager came over (I didn't catch his name), and said that there was a phone call for the mechanic. After a moment or two he became insistant that the mechanic took the phone call. The fact that he (the mechanic) was talking to me, a customer, appeared to have escaped his attention.
I got in the car to leave, as I pulled away the noise suddenly disappeared, I let it idle again and it returned, As the behaviour had suddenly changed from when I was just speaking with the mechanic, I rightly or wrongly believed that this required further investigation. I waited in the car, for the mechanic to
return from his phone call. Just then, the gentleman who booked the car in saw me and came over, I explained the situation and he said he'd ask the mechanic to pop out again.
Whilst I was waiting the workshop manager re-appeared and stated that in the future would I not just walk into the workshop to speak with a mechanic, and instead go to reception. I was taken aback by his somewhat abrupt approach and I explained that I hadn't done as he had suggested, and in fact the mechanic had seen me as I pulled up and came out, as we had agreed that morning. I also added that I couldn't turn the car off to go into the reception anyhow, as the noise would probably not reoccur when the car was re-started, and I was of course unable to leave it running unattended.
He then explained that he couldn't spare any more time on it, as the mechanic had spent 10 minutes on it already and extra additional work had been booked in. As it had been agreed that I would come back during the day if the noise re-occurred, I politly pointed out that this wasn't my problem, the car had been booked in for today, and, additionally I had taken a day off. I added that as the noise was intermittant, how else was I expected to resolve it.
He agreed to let the mechanic take a look with a clear level of reluctance, the car was taken into the workshop and I went to a local shop to buy a drink.
On my return the workshop manager explained that they could find no cause to warrent further investigation, and that he noise is 'probably normal'. I enquired as to where the noise was coming from, and he admitted that they were unable to say. It was very clear that he had no interest in my issues, and wanted me out of the door as quickly as possible.
Let me clarify some points:
1. 'Probably normal' is not a satisfactory answer.
2. If the noise is 'normal' I would expect a Volvo dealer to be able to tell me what it was.
3. If the dealer cannot tell me what the noise is, how can they say that it requires no further investigation.
4. A noise that deveops only after 3500 miles, is not normal. Why was it not apparent previously ?
For Volvo, perhaps my car is just another unit sold. From my perspective, it is a considerable investment approaching £20000. I made the decision to buy a C30 based on brand value, and the reputation of Volvos reliability and build quality. It is therefore totally unacceptable that I should be expected to live with an undiagnosed issue on a car that is still under warranty and just 3 months old.
Unknown to the workshop manager, my backgroud is in Mechanical Engineering, and I worked at one point for Ford Motor Company as a 'Noise, Vibration and Harshness Engineer' and I therefore speak with some authority on this matter. I appreciate that it may indeed turn out that the issue is either minor or has some simple explanation. However, as of the moment, the car is 'behaving' in a way it has not done before so something must have changed, and therefore it is reasonable that this is investigated as a warranty issue.
The workshop managers approach and attitude has caused me to loose significant confidence in Volvo dealers ability to take care of, and show an interest in their customers. I do not expect to be 'fobbed' off having been told that they have already looked at it for 10 minutes. I will remind you that the dealer recommended I booked it in, so clearly, at that point, they must have felt further investigation was required.
Given Volvos brand values, which I am sure you are very proud of, you will agree that this is a less than satisfactury situation.
I would suggest therefore that a Volvo representative is assigned to work with the dealer to oversee this problem to completion. If this means the car is inspected by a Volvo specialist then so be it. Additionally, I expect to be kept mobile with a loan vehicle during this process.
I must add that I have no complaint with the mechanic, who was friendly and approachable, nor with the gentlemean who booked the car in.
As I have now logged this issue with Volvo I trust that my concerns will be addressed appropriately.
Edited by mph999 on Friday 4th June 00:37
Edited by mph999 on Friday 4th June 00:37
too much detail, i'd keep your engineering experience under your hat for now, stick to the basics of your point, ie or makes funny noise, went to garage who looked but couldnt diagnose and then dismissed it as normal which you are not satisfied with, can volvo offer you any assistance/suggestions
you make think twice about causing the dealer to get a chewing out by their regional manager in case you need to go back there anytime -
you make think twice about causing the dealer to get a chewing out by their regional manager in case you need to go back there anytime -
Not too sure what the problem is if the car is still under manufacturer's warranty. Book the car in, get them to fit the part they think is faulty, if noise disappears then drinks all round, if noise is still there then further investigation is needed. None of this will cost you a bean.
With all due respect, you are not dealing with fellow engineers. You are dealing with fitters who work under the title of mechanics. They don't fix things, they replace them. Usually when they are broke. Which it isn't.
That's what they get paid for. Not conducting lengthly and unnecessary tests, experiments and enginnering conundrums.
You're expectation of a main dealer also seems optimistic. They are not a personal service at your beck and call, ready to down tools without notice to serve your every whim.
That's what they get paid for. Not conducting lengthly and unnecessary tests, experiments and enginnering conundrums.
You're expectation of a main dealer also seems optimistic. They are not a personal service at your beck and call, ready to down tools without notice to serve your every whim.
johnnyBv8 said:
mph999 said:
Dear Sir, blah blah blah
I think the main problem you'll have is that they will fall asleep reading that, and hence be unable to extract the very minor point you're actually trying to make.Gassing Station | General Gassing [Archive] | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff