Does society need to show more respect to the Military?
Discussion
Do you think we'll ever see a situation here like in America where military personal are given preferential treatment by businesses (discounts, airline upgrades etc) and revered by large sections of the public?
I don't think the last few conflicts have helped. Kosovo, Iraq and Afghanistan have been about protecting the rights of others. Should we ever see a conflict directly involving our safety and sovereignty then I think attitudes will change. Until then, I'm not so sure.
I don't think the last few conflicts have helped. Kosovo, Iraq and Afghanistan have been about protecting the rights of others. Should we ever see a conflict directly involving our safety and sovereignty then I think attitudes will change. Until then, I'm not so sure.
The Times said:
Having stayed overnight in Camp Bastion, the British base, and gone for an early-morning run in a dust storm, the Prime Minister told 400 troops in southern Afghanistan that he wanted to change perceptions of the military. “There is huge respect and support for what the military does,” he said. “I want you to help me create a new atmosphere in our country, an atmosphere where we back and revere and support our military.”
Mr Cameron paraphrased a poem by a US Army veteran, Charles M. Province, to emphasise the unseen military contribution to everyday life. “It is not the politician that brings the right to vote, it is the soldier; it is not the poet that bring free speech, it is the soldier; it is not the journalist that brings free expression, it is the soldier.”
Mr Cameron paraphrased a poem by a US Army veteran, Charles M. Province, to emphasise the unseen military contribution to everyday life. “It is not the politician that brings the right to vote, it is the soldier; it is not the poet that bring free speech, it is the soldier; it is not the journalist that brings free expression, it is the soldier.”
The BBC said:
The mother of a soldier killed in Afghanistan says the military should be shown more respect from the public.
Rifleman Cyrus Thatcher, 19, from Reading, Berkshire, died in an explosion while on patrol near Gereshk in Helmand province on 2 June, 2009.
Speaking on the first anniversary of his death, Helena Tym said soldiers should be able to march through their home towns without being abused.
She said many soldiers hid the fact they were in the forces.
"I just want Britain to be proud of their armed forces," Ms Tym said.
"I would love to see a day, like the Americans, the French, the Italians, when they can walk around our streets in their uniform with pride and not have to hide the fact they are in the armed forces.
Rifleman Cyrus Thatcher, 19, from Reading, Berkshire, died in an explosion while on patrol near Gereshk in Helmand province on 2 June, 2009.
Speaking on the first anniversary of his death, Helena Tym said soldiers should be able to march through their home towns without being abused.
She said many soldiers hid the fact they were in the forces.
"I just want Britain to be proud of their armed forces," Ms Tym said.
"I would love to see a day, like the Americans, the French, the Italians, when they can walk around our streets in their uniform with pride and not have to hide the fact they are in the armed forces.
Edited by 5unny on Saturday 12th June 13:37
Its not a bad balance in the UK. There are lots of forces discounts out there, and plenty of good feeling towards them.
Hiding the fact that you're part of the armed forces by not wearing uniforms is because PIRA used to pose a real threat to soft targets (i.e. individual soldiers off duty). Given the Birmingham plot to kidnap and kill soldiers, doesn't look like that threat has disappeared.
Hiding the fact that you're part of the armed forces by not wearing uniforms is because PIRA used to pose a real threat to soft targets (i.e. individual soldiers off duty). Given the Birmingham plot to kidnap and kill soldiers, doesn't look like that threat has disappeared.
I'd rather the government didn't send them to stupid wars because an old British PM was a lapdog to a stupid USA president and then not have them killed or come home with no legs.
I'm sure the soldiers would rather have it that way than preferential treatment.
One exception is the Ghurkas which seem to have been given the rough end of the stick for sterling service, but perhaps this is being corrected now.
Deep admiration to all our soliders having said all that, thanks guys.
Andy
I'm sure the soldiers would rather have it that way than preferential treatment.
One exception is the Ghurkas which seem to have been given the rough end of the stick for sterling service, but perhaps this is being corrected now.
Deep admiration to all our soliders having said all that, thanks guys.
Andy
Sheets Tabuer said:
The public have a problem with our soldiers?
News to me.
I think the mother in question may be referring to certain elements of the public who might stand and hurl abuse at the soldiers when they parade.News to me.
It is not exactly unknown, nor sadly uncommon. In Colchester though I often see soldiers about in full uniform with no complaints.
5unny said:
Do you think we'll ever see a situation here like in America where military personal are given preferential treatment by businesses (discounts, airline upgrades etc) and revered by large sections of the public?
Nope, but I wish we would. I find the way America treats its service personnel amazing. There is total respect for people who are willing to lay down their lives for the nation.
But here, meh, turn up at Tesco in uniform and they probably won't serve you alcohol.
Why?
Just because you're a soldier doesn't mean you should get preferrential treatment in society.
They chose the job for what it is, and should accept their pay and conditions (which I agree should be raised) as they chose it. Nobody forced them in to it.
You run the risk of people joining up for alterior motives otherwise.
Not all soldiers are heroes, etc...
If you did give them pref. treatment, where would you draw the line? Doctors? Nurses? Firefighters? Of course not... stupid idea.
Just because you're a soldier doesn't mean you should get preferrential treatment in society.
They chose the job for what it is, and should accept their pay and conditions (which I agree should be raised) as they chose it. Nobody forced them in to it.
You run the risk of people joining up for alterior motives otherwise.
Not all soldiers are heroes, etc...
If you did give them pref. treatment, where would you draw the line? Doctors? Nurses? Firefighters? Of course not... stupid idea.
Yes but lets not turn into the USA, I suspect their treatment stems from the fact that they shat on their servicemen and women in the 60's and 70's over the war in Vietnam, so have a generation of people who feel that they where poorly treated and want to make sure it doesn't happen again.
i'm no superhero said:
If you did give them pref. treatment, where would you draw the line? Doctors? Nurses? Firefighters? Of course not... stupid idea.
Why not? Well, maybe not a hospital consultant on £150k+ per year but a nurse who works her arse off to look after the sick for ~£20k a year? Or a fireman who risks his life daily for about the same sort of salary? Why not? 
TVR Moneypit said:
If some chap / lady is willing to put their life on the line to protect mine, (directly or indirectly), then they are a bloody hero in my book, and will get treated as such by me if no-one else.
They chose to do it, sometimes because it is one of very few choices they have. That doesn't make someone a hero, it means they have chosen a job because they couldn't do anything else.I don't believe the above statement, but it is an obvious devil's advocate point.
I do however disagree that you cannot define hero. Someone who trains guide dogs may be a hero to a blind person, do they get hero status?
Moral minefield.
ShadownINja said:
i'm no superhero said:
If you did give them pref. treatment, where would you draw the line? Doctors? Nurses? Firefighters? Of course not... stupid idea.
Why not? Well, maybe not a hospital consultant on £150k+ per year but a nurse who works her arse off to look after the sick for ~£20k a year? Or a fireman who risks his life daily for about the same sort of salary? Why not? Is a doctor who has worked as hard as a nurse not eligibile for the same priviledges?
Is a general more deserving than a private?
Can I just say I applaud the armed forces for the job they do, I'm in NO way against their purpose, courage or skill and professionalism.
For many decades, the public had been kept ignoramt of what is involved in being in the military. British soldiering had been kept very low key by the media and by the overall political atitude. I am sure this is because, with the exception of the Falklands War, the major British military involvement which resulted in casualties over the past 40 years had been the conflict in Northern Ireland. It was a particularly sensitive situation which encouraged everything to be kept low key.
With the advent of Blair's overseas wars, we are back in a more "normal" situation where the military are fighting a more discernable "foreign" enemy and the media, politicians and the public feel a lot more comfortable supporting "our lads".
With the advent of Blair's overseas wars, we are back in a more "normal" situation where the military are fighting a more discernable "foreign" enemy and the media, politicians and the public feel a lot more comfortable supporting "our lads".
i'm no superhero said:
They chose to do it, sometimes because it is one of very few choices they have. That doesn't make someone a hero, it means they have chosen a job because they couldn't do anything else.
I don't believe the above statement, but it is an obvious devil's advocate point.
I joined up because I "couldn't do anything else"? Well done for that well thought out statement. On my intake every single person had come from jobs in civvy street and I personally took a large pay cut to do so, but I wanted to serve my country as did many others. There are people who don't just think of themselves you know?I don't believe the above statement, but it is an obvious devil's advocate point.
I was talking to two lads from the army the other night who'd just come back from afganistan.
as they come back with their full kit on they decided before going home to pop into a local yates and have a pint or two.
on their first order the bar manager told them it was on the house, then one of them went to the loo and was followed by a bloke - thinking the bloke might want to fame himself as fighting a squaddie his other mate went to watch his back only to be asked mid-pee if it would be ok to buy them a pint.
3rd pint came and the bar woman picked up the tab
4th pint the bar woman refused payment as the drinks had been paid for by a bloke further down.
they'd spent 4 hours in there and not once did they manage to pay for their drinks as someone had offered. there's alot more respect now than there was - bought on by the positive publicity. the guy told me of the times when comin back from northern ireland he'd been spat at and a bottle thrown at his head just for being a squaddie.
i think they're gaining alot of respect from alot of people and alot of people are recognising the effort and the risk they're putting up being in the british army.
few months ago i paid for some coffee for a guy who was kitted up (just came back i think) with his back pack - kinda surprised him that a
bloke bought him that!
as they come back with their full kit on they decided before going home to pop into a local yates and have a pint or two.
on their first order the bar manager told them it was on the house, then one of them went to the loo and was followed by a bloke - thinking the bloke might want to fame himself as fighting a squaddie his other mate went to watch his back only to be asked mid-pee if it would be ok to buy them a pint.
3rd pint came and the bar woman picked up the tab
4th pint the bar woman refused payment as the drinks had been paid for by a bloke further down.
they'd spent 4 hours in there and not once did they manage to pay for their drinks as someone had offered. there's alot more respect now than there was - bought on by the positive publicity. the guy told me of the times when comin back from northern ireland he'd been spat at and a bottle thrown at his head just for being a squaddie.
i think they're gaining alot of respect from alot of people and alot of people are recognising the effort and the risk they're putting up being in the british army.
few months ago i paid for some coffee for a guy who was kitted up (just came back i think) with his back pack - kinda surprised him that a
bloke bought him that!Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff