Best way to achieve a shot like these?

[Louisa911]

Hi all

My other half and his group of friends are all into their downhill and freeride mountain biking, and they would appreciate some shots taking for them- as well as it being a great opportunity to put my camera to good use and learn some new stuff too. I've taken basic shots for them, which have been quite successful, but nothing like what I'd love to be able to achieve.

In all the biking mags you see some great looking shots, for example in a woodland, with a really well lit rider and bike, a wheel rather close to the viewer and so on, eg. http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/3354709/
and http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/4972053/

How do they achieve this look? I imagine it will be at least one flash, or lamp, off camera? What about lens selection? I am hoping to sell up my 300D and go for a 40D in the next couple of weeks, perhaps allowing £120-ish for a lens of some form (no major budget I'm afraid as I'm a student and was origninally planning just to go for the newer 18-55mm IS kit lens)

What equipment / setup would be needed for something like that type of shot? Any info, help, advice at all would be fantastic thanks, as I've yet to experiment with off-camera lighting, panning or using different lenses (other than the 50mm f1.8 canon which I already own)

Cheers
Louisa

[ian in lancs]

that was shot with at least an 18mm, maybe wider with flash to freeze action. Nikon can do this easily with their CLS system. A sophisticated off camera flash system that can be set up in a myriad of ways. I think Canon have a similar system but it isn't as good apparently.

Anyway, set up as 'balanced' flash - balancing flash with ambient*. I'd use programme mode - it's loads easier to set up and usually gets it right.

• faster shutter darkens ambient, slower lightens ambient. Flash power or flash distance to subject will determine aperture. As I said use Programme mode it a lot easier.

[RobDickinson]

I'd say that was 14-18mm 35mm focal length, quite close to the biker too.

1/50th to 1/100th shutter, theres some background blur from paning but not a lot.

Off camera flash to the right and one fuirther away on the left I rekon too.

[dougc]

Exif data removed from the first one but the second:

Camera Make {0x010F} NIKON CORPORATION
Camera Model {0x0110} NIKON D3S
Last Modified Date/Time {0x0132} 2010:05:01 09:09:14

Exposure Time (1 / Shutter Speed) {0x829A} 1/250 second ===> 0.004 second
Lens F-Number / F-Stop {0x829D} 8/1 ===> ƒ/8
ISO Speed Ratings {0x8827} 400
Original Date/Time {0x9003} 2010:04:23 13:17:17
Shutter Speed Value (APEX) {0x9201} 56573/7102
Shutter Speed (Exposure Time) 1/250 second
Aperture Value (APEX) {0x9202} 6/1
Aperture ƒ/8
Flash {0x9209} Flash did not fire
Focal Length {0x920A} 17/1 mm ===> 17 mm

[RobDickinson]

hah flash most definatly did fire...

[LongQ]

dougc said:

Exif data removed from the first one but the second:

Camera Make {0x010F} NIKON CORPORATION
Camera Model {0x0110} NIKON D3S
Last Modified Date/Time {0x0132} 2010:05:01 09:09:14

Exposure Time (1 / Shutter Speed) {0x829A} 1/250 second ===> 0.004 second
Lens F-Number / F-Stop {0x829D} 8/1 ===> ƒ/8
ISO Speed Ratings {0x8827} 400
Original Date/Time {0x9003} 2010:04:23 13:17:17
Shutter Speed Value (APEX) {0x9201} 56573/7102
Shutter Speed (Exposure Time) 1/250 second
Aperture Value (APEX) {0x9202} 6/1
Aperture ƒ/8
Flash {0x9209} Flash did not fire
Focal Length {0x920A} 17/1 mm ===> 17 mm

Most of which info plus a little more is to the right of the photo.

So, D3S and a Wide angle zoom. Plus some serious flash of some sort.

What was the budget again?

Edited by LongQ on Sunday 13th June 22:48

[LongQ]

The first one looks a bit suspicious to me.

The comments suggest a Sigma 10-20 lens which may be right. However the bike and rider are showroom clean by the looks of it. I'm just not at all sure all is as it seems.


Anyone else feel the same?

ETA: 2 Flash units? Or some remarkable ambient control and powerful PP?

The illumination cut off on the LH side of the front tyre (an elsewhere) seems a bit sudden for ambient. Also very low so unlikely not to be a flash. The base of th tree trunk below the rear wheel looks very sharp (and flash lit), anything at height not at all sharp and suggesting movement blur. Hmm.


ETA2: Actually I reckon at least 3 flash angles on the subject, one being high and left of camera, one low and left of camera and the other right of camera. Also some in-line fill? 4 flashes?

Edited by LongQ on Sunday 13th June 22:18

Edited by LongQ on Sunday 13th June 22:22

[RobDickinson]

D700 and a 16-35 or 17-35vr or something will do just as good I suspect?

You can get that kind of result fro a crop too the ISo isnt pushe that far nor are you needing a shallow DOF.

Its the photog & flash setup & skill that gets those shots.

[14-7]

LongQ said:

The first one looks a bit suspicious to me.

The comments suggest a Sigma 10-20 lens which may be right. However the bike and rider are showroom clean by the looks of it. I'm just not at all sure all is as it seems.


Anyone else feel the same?

When I first looked at it I just thought nice shot but after reading your post then looking again you may be right.

There isn't a speck of dirt on those tyres which for a forest floor seems a bit odd.

Or maybe I'm just too cynical.

[Simpo Two]

Actually I wondered if the bike was shopped in on the second one. Not because of the different white balance, which could be the flash, but because I couldn't see how he got the height given the ground behind him. But I may be completely wrong.

(might explain why the flash didn't fire though!)

Edited by Simpo Two on Sunday 13th June 23:19

[Louisa911]

From my experience, depending on the location, the tyres could still be that clean if its a pine forest type location, but I know what you mean about looking too perfect. Might even have been corrected to look that way on Photoshop.

So I doubt I could achieve anything like this at that budget then? Few hundred quid on off-camera flash setup maybe, but I can't see it being a possibility or worthwile spending my money just yet!

[neilski]

Louisa911 said:

Any info, help, advice at all would be fantastic thanks

Tell your OH riding DH is a bit sissy and to get a proper bike and ride up some hills instead. The first time I climbed the Col du Galibier there were some blokes at the top getting their DH bikes out of a van.

As for the photography, I've no idea I'm afraid but good luck with it.

[mrmr96]

If I was trying to do that I'd mount the camera on a tripod with remote release. Then it's a matter of making sure it's pointed the right way (easier with a wide angle lens) and then get the timing right.

I'd imagine you can setup the lighting and shutter and aperture with a static shot before hand. (i.e. get someone to stand in place and hold the bike in the air or something while you fiddle with the camera). Then a little trial and error, since this is clearly a posed for photo, not one which has been take during a competition for example. (However you could possible get photos like this of a comp if you set the gear up and had it all working before hand.)

Possibly getting a bit too techy, but I think there's a few different remote release triggers you can get. For example the simplest is one where you press the button on the end of the wire, but I think that for wildlife shots you can get them triggered by something in the environment. So you could have an infra red 'trip wire' setup on the jump which sets the camera off by a little delay so it catches the rides in mid air perfectly every time. That would be a good setup for competition, however you may have to lose the flash as it could be distracting.

[Louisa911]

neilski said:

Louisa911 said:

Any info, help, advice at all would be fantastic thanks

Tell your OH riding DH is a bit sissy and to get a proper bike and ride up some hills instead. The first time I climbed the Col du Galibier there were some blokes at the top getting their DH bikes out of a van.

As for the photography, I've no idea I'm afraid but good luck with it.

Don't worry, he does XC and freeride too

He's a strong believer in earning the downhill on the way back- done the Three Peaks, Chamonix, Glencoe trails etc more times than I can count- been riding since he was about 7 haha. He despises people like the ones you saw with the van!





.......guys got skills

Edited by Louisa911 on Monday 14th June 00:15

[Louisa911]

Thanks for the responses so far guys. Say if I did end up with a 40D, what actual equipment would I need altogether for a decent off-camera flash setup (one that fires on press of the shutter button to keep things simple). I checked out eBay and it baffled me. Lighting is a whole new world I've yet to discover due to time and money!

[LongQ]

Louisa911 said:

From my experience, depending on the location, the tyres could still be that clean if its a pine forest type location, but I know what you mean about looking too perfect. Might even have been corrected to look that way on Photoshop.

So I doubt I could achieve anything like this at that budget then? Few hundred quid on off-camera flash setup maybe, but I can't see it being a possibility or worthwile spending my money just yet!

Louisa,

I checked a few of the shots that came up as links from the links. A guy called Ian Hyland seems to offer a good mix of events and places. I would say he uses flash a lot - off camera of course.

The way it's used is unlikely to be distracting for competitors used to such things. It looks likely mainly lighting from the side.

But yes, a few hundred quid maybe for, say, 3 or maybe 4 flashes of an appropriate power and some radio flash triggers. OPerated manually - the auto stuff would take you into the £1000+ arena. Whether you need a wide angle lens or could start with something less wide but get the flash look is another question.

Tripods, remote viewers, remote control and so on - all valid kit that could be part of getting the look, but it's starting to look expensive. I suspect (but can't be sure) that the flash route get you close with, potentially, the least cost.

It's an interesting challenge.

[RobDickinson]

That wasnt tripod/remote release. They've been pan'd.

2-3 flashes and some practice setup will sort it.

[Louisa911]

RobDickinson said:

That wasnt tripod/remote release. They've been pan'd.

2-3 flashes and some practice setup will sort it.

So if I purchased 3 flash units (any particular model to look for?), what would I need to buy to connect them up and trigger them? I'm a total noob when it comes to anything regarding off-camera lighting. I understand the reasoning behind HOW to light things, techniques and why you would place what light and where, but when it comes to equipment.....

Cheers

Edited by Louisa911 on Monday 14th June 00:40

[RobDickinson]

What camera do you have?

[LongQ]

Louisa911 said:

RobDickinson said:

That wasnt tripod/remote release. They've been pan'd.

2-3 flashes and some practice setup will sort it.

So if I purchased 3 flash units (any particular model to look for?), what would I need to buy to connect them up and trigger them? I'm a total noob when it comes to anything regarding off-camera lighting. I understand the reasoning behind HOW to light things, techniques and why you would place what light and where, but when it comes to equipment.....

Cheers

Edited by Louisa911 on Monday 14th June 00:40

Hmm.

In an ideal world you would get a Canon 7D and some top end flash units or, should changing brands be acceptable, something similar from Nikon. Plus something to attach them to to get them where you need them.

Poverty world has been eBay for older manually controllable flashes and 'poverty wizards' from China. Cheap. Great if they work. Many do, some don't.

Somewhere in the middle come the new offereing of people who are trying to fill the middle ground of cost vs performance for those who often find manual control of flashes is their best options.

Checkout the recents posts on Strobist.com . I have not looked for a week or so but there were some lead in items about some new flash units and, a while further back, some new triggers, that seem to fit your objectives.

I have some large Metz units that offer a lot of power but are not easily controlled by manual settings so far as my experiments have informed me. They autosense light for exposures - and do a great job - but that's not really what you want. They have manual settings - but the ones I have don't offer fine enough adjustment of power output for all purposes in manual mode.

I have some Elinchrom radio triggers that work well but I suspect that some of the latest stuff from China via serious US retail sources may be a better price/performance combination for your purposes. Not sure who is stocking them in europe though.