Killer under the bonnet!!
Discussion
"http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/10293519.s...
Even the evidence in the text above highlights OTHER potential causes...
However, if it encourages drivers to use screen wash, then I am all for it!
BBC News Story said:
Windscreen water infection risk
By Emma Wilkinson
Health reporter,
Windscreen wiper water may be the cause of 20% of cases of Legionnaire's Disease in England and Wales, the Health Protection Agency says.
Stagnant, warm water is a breeding ground for the Legionella bacterium, which when inhaled causes pneumonia.
Yet adding screenwash kills the bacteria and could save lives, the Agency advised.
The finding came after researchers spotted that professional drivers are five times more likely to be infected.
Legionnaire's disease is fairly rare. Most cases are sporadic and a source of the infection is not found.
The number of cases vary from year to year, but in 2009 there were 345 in England and Wales - although some infections were caught overseas.
It mainly affects the over 50s and is generally more common in men.
Early symptoms feel similar to flu with muscle aches, tiredness, headaches, dry cough and fever. It is fatal in around 10-15% of patients.
Driving
To work out why people who spend a long time driving were at higher risk of infection, the research team in the south-west branch of the HPA carried out a questionnaire of people infected.
They found that those most at risk were those who drove or travelled in a van, those who drove through industrial areas, and those who spent a lot of time in the car or who often had the car window open.
Continue reading the main story
This is a bug which lives in the environment and will take advantage of warm water systems that are not cleaned out
Professor Hugh Pennington
In all they found that the biggest risk was associated with not adding screenwash to windscreen wiper water, the European Journal of Epidemiology reports.
In a pilot study carried out by the HPA, traces of Legionella were found in one in five cars that did not have screenwash, but in no cars that did.
Dr Isabel Oliver, regional director of the HPA South West, said more research was needed but people may want to check they have screenwash in their cars as they usually contain agents which would stop the growth of bacteria.
"It does not spread from person to person but is present in water environments and is breathed in when it gets into the air in fine particles or mist."
Professor Hugh Pennington, an expert in bacteriology, said the advice to add screenwash was very sound - especially as it would also lead to a cleaner windscreen.
"This is a bug which lives in the environment and will take advantage of warm water systems that are not cleaned out.
"Legionnaire's is rare but it kills people and it's an extremely unpleasant disease.
"If you can prevent it with something this simple then it's a no brainer really."
I find this hard to believe myself, as most people use screen wash, AND are unlikely to breath in the spray from their washer bottle if they dont!By Emma Wilkinson
Health reporter,
Windscreen wiper water may be the cause of 20% of cases of Legionnaire's Disease in England and Wales, the Health Protection Agency says.
Stagnant, warm water is a breeding ground for the Legionella bacterium, which when inhaled causes pneumonia.
Yet adding screenwash kills the bacteria and could save lives, the Agency advised.
The finding came after researchers spotted that professional drivers are five times more likely to be infected.
Legionnaire's disease is fairly rare. Most cases are sporadic and a source of the infection is not found.
The number of cases vary from year to year, but in 2009 there were 345 in England and Wales - although some infections were caught overseas.
It mainly affects the over 50s and is generally more common in men.
Early symptoms feel similar to flu with muscle aches, tiredness, headaches, dry cough and fever. It is fatal in around 10-15% of patients.
Driving
To work out why people who spend a long time driving were at higher risk of infection, the research team in the south-west branch of the HPA carried out a questionnaire of people infected.
They found that those most at risk were those who drove or travelled in a van, those who drove through industrial areas, and those who spent a lot of time in the car or who often had the car window open.
Continue reading the main story
This is a bug which lives in the environment and will take advantage of warm water systems that are not cleaned out
Professor Hugh Pennington
In all they found that the biggest risk was associated with not adding screenwash to windscreen wiper water, the European Journal of Epidemiology reports.
In a pilot study carried out by the HPA, traces of Legionella were found in one in five cars that did not have screenwash, but in no cars that did.
Dr Isabel Oliver, regional director of the HPA South West, said more research was needed but people may want to check they have screenwash in their cars as they usually contain agents which would stop the growth of bacteria.
"It does not spread from person to person but is present in water environments and is breathed in when it gets into the air in fine particles or mist."
Professor Hugh Pennington, an expert in bacteriology, said the advice to add screenwash was very sound - especially as it would also lead to a cleaner windscreen.
"This is a bug which lives in the environment and will take advantage of warm water systems that are not cleaned out.
"Legionnaire's is rare but it kills people and it's an extremely unpleasant disease.
"If you can prevent it with something this simple then it's a no brainer really."
Even the evidence in the text above highlights OTHER potential causes...
article said:
those who drove or travelled in a van, those who drove through industrial areas, and those who spent a lot of time in the car or who often had the car window open.
Industrial areas with air con units and exhaust vapours from works are a known risk!However, if it encourages drivers to use screen wash, then I am all for it!
ShadownINja said:
Mill Wheel said:
are unlikely to breath in the spray from their washer bottle if they dont!
Well, you say that but you know when you squirt the window, you sometimes get a whiff of screen wash... or even when someone in front of you does it...I always thought the smell was from the alcohol which evaporates off easily - legionaire requires droplets as I understood it.
How about cyclists - and does a good pollen filter stop it?
Mill Wheel said:
ShadownINja said:
Mill Wheel said:
are unlikely to breath in the spray from their washer bottle if they dont!
Well, you say that but you know when you squirt the window, you sometimes get a whiff of screen wash... or even when someone in front of you does it...I always thought the smell was from the alcohol which evaporates off easily - legionaire requires droplets as I understood it.
ShadownINja said:
What I meant was - the smell is proof the droplets get through... so if someone in front squirts or you squirt and there is no screen wash, the contaminated droplets will get through into the cabin... the difference is that you won't smell it but still breathe it in!
LOL 
What I think you smell is the alcohol fumes - I am not sure whether the droplets get through the pollen filters in most new cars.
The French go in for perfumed screenwash - mint, citrus, that sort of thing, and you CAN smell it in the interior - but then you can smell it simply by lifting the lid - no spray required.
Mill Wheel said:
Colin 1985 said:
I would have thought the anti-freeze additive (what ever you may call it?) would kill the bacteria.
You didn't bother to read more than the headline did you! Were you just getting up or going to bed?
Point taken, so kids buy the concentrate from Halfords to avoid a horrible death (it smells nice too).
Mill Wheel said:
ShadownINja said:
What I meant was - the smell is proof the droplets get through... so if someone in front squirts or you squirt and there is no screen wash, the contaminated droplets will get through into the cabin... the difference is that you won't smell it but still breathe it in!
LOL What I think you smell is the alcohol fumes - I am not sure whether the droplets get through the pollen filters in most new cars.
The French go in for perfumed screenwash - mint, citrus, that sort of thing, and you CAN smell it in the interior - but then you can smell it simply by lifting the lid - no spray required.
davidss from freshatank said:
This has been a concern of mine for a while having worked in this industry, I found a product called freshatank from aquamidas.com. This kills all the bugs without the chemicals that stain paint. So far impressed with the product!
Thanks David from Freshatank, that sounds great. I'm going to go and buy some now. Honest.Mill Wheel said:
ShadownINja said:
What I meant was - the smell is proof the droplets get through... so if someone in front squirts or you squirt and there is no screen wash, the contaminated droplets will get through into the cabin... the difference is that you won't smell it but still breathe it in!
LOL What I think you smell is the alcohol fumes - I am not sure whether the droplets get through the pollen filters in most new cars.
The French go in for perfumed screenwash - mint, citrus, that sort of thing, and you CAN smell it in the interior - but then you can smell it simply by lifting the lid - no spray required.
t so everything that lives in the room tends to get covered, including all your toilet time reading material. Once its been in the room it shouldn't be left anywhere else if you want to be really pedantic about hygene.The very fact that they have found colonies of legionella bacteria in screenwash bottles means the advice is not particularly far fetched and worth paying attention to. Bacteria and algae living in screenwash bottles is not news in any real sense - some of the grease that gets on your windscreen comes out of the washer bottle and it is that bacteria and algae getting smeared all over the glass, using screenwash helps to keep the bacteria and algae down but it does not eradicate all of them. This has been known for decades, the news is that legionella can live in the washer tank.
The real question is what concentration of screen wash additive do you need to use to kill it off?
Odd..I live in Canada and have never heard of anyone using water instead of screenwash, which is available at all petrol station in North America. Is the UK different?...we get seasonally adjusted stuff with insect remover in the summer and a winter version that is good down to -40. Its dirt cheap too.
RDMcG said:
Odd..I live in Canada and have never heard of anyone using water instead of screenwash, which is available at all petrol station in North America. Is the UK different?...we get seasonally adjusted stuff with insect remover in the summer and a winter version that is good down to -40. Its dirt cheap too.
You are lucky - it is not as cheap here as it is on the continent.I use 50/50 solution of screenwash/water in winter - and this winter I added neat industrial alcohol, bringing the water down to 25%.
Most winters a 5 litre of screen wash from my holiday in France has been enough - and I use Lidl's insect removing wash additive in summer - but all that apparently will not suffice if the car in front is running with just water!
A few years back, a friend had a nasty smell in his car that he could not get rid of - turned out to be his air con, and it cost £80 to have it cleaned out!
The Barrow in Furness outbreak of legionaires was from an air con cooling tower on the roof of the Forum 28 arts and entertainment complex - I'd guess that ANYONE driving past was at risk - but not as much as those who walked down an alleyway next to the building.
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