A disastrous week
Discussion
Having a backfocus problem with the Nikkor 200/400 last autumn, I sent both the camera and the lens back to Nikon for sorting. This week at Le Mans, I confess to giving up. Look at the image attached as an example. I've tried any combination of shutter speed, aperture, also using the ISO to help control both, but virtually every photo came out like this. Using the 24/70 in the pits on AP, the system again went haywire and vastly overexposed so I had to switch to manual to get results. The 70/200 produced absolutely stunning photos, as usual, so there seems to be a glitch in the 200/400 mostly. I am careful not to use it over 350mm since it is well known for softness at the top end. I have to say that as a long time Nikon user I am disappointed since this is the first real problem I've ever had. I'm registered on the Professional scheme with Nikon so I'll get priority service but this just shouldn't happen with professional gear. It's a D3 by the way.
You should see the issue I had with my 70-200 mm (Nikon).
Issues similar to yours on a D300, and Nikon told me it was within spec.
I had a cheap 70-200mm kit lens that took better pictures.
Eventually I sold it at a loss.
Apart from that, I'm very happy with Nikon, but still haven't got over the fact the tried to pass a lens as bad as that off as within spec.
Martin
Issues similar to yours on a D300, and Nikon told me it was within spec.
I had a cheap 70-200mm kit lens that took better pictures.
Eventually I sold it at a loss.
Apart from that, I'm very happy with Nikon, but still haven't got over the fact the tried to pass a lens as bad as that off as within spec.
Martin
As a comparison, here are two taken with the 70/200, which show the quality available:-
ETA: static shots are more than fine with superb bokeh should I need it, but action shots are disastrous. I tried up to 1/1000th, I tried every aperture from f4 to f22 but to no avail. The 70/200 are taken at 3 metres from a car doing 80mph (and at 1/200th for panning) so not every one is going to be a great success, but 98% failure rate with the 200/400 shows there is a big problem.
ETA: static shots are more than fine with superb bokeh should I need it, but action shots are disastrous. I tried up to 1/1000th, I tried every aperture from f4 to f22 but to no avail. The 70/200 are taken at 3 metres from a car doing 80mph (and at 1/200th for panning) so not every one is going to be a great success, but 98% failure rate with the 200/400 shows there is a big problem.
Edited by lowdrag on Tuesday 15th June 10:59
Couple of things spring to mind. I had similar AF problems with my D300 on moving subjects coming towards me, as shown in your first shot. I cured this by tuning the AF-C settings in the camera. I'm happy to share my settings if required.
The other thought is regarding fine tuning the AF compensation for that particular lens. There is a test chart with tutorial here, obviously with the minimum focus distance on your 200-400 you will need to set the camera up further away.
The other thought is regarding fine tuning the AF compensation for that particular lens. There is a test chart with tutorial here, obviously with the minimum focus distance on your 200-400 you will need to set the camera up further away.
Here you go:
Custom settings menu (I won't bother posting the settings that are not relevant or make no odds/personal preference, just what I changed)
a1 AF-C priority selection = Release + Focus
a3 Dynamic AF area = 21 points
a4 Focus tracking with lock-on = OFF
a7 Focus point wrap around = No wrap
a8 AF point selection = 11 points
For sports use I always disable NR and leave white balance auto:
Shooting Menu
White Balance = AUTO
Active D Lighting = Off
Long Exp. NR = OFF
High ISO NR = OFF
To help conserve battery life
Playback Menu
Image review = OFF
Now set the button on the front of the camera to C (AF-C) and the AF switch on the rear of the camera to the middle setting (group dynamic AF). You can then change your focus point between 11 points and the camera will select the AF dynamically using one of the surrounding 21 points closest to your focus point. I have found this works really well for all types of moving subjects.
Custom settings menu (I won't bother posting the settings that are not relevant or make no odds/personal preference, just what I changed)
a1 AF-C priority selection = Release + Focus
a3 Dynamic AF area = 21 points
a4 Focus tracking with lock-on = OFF
a7 Focus point wrap around = No wrap
a8 AF point selection = 11 points
For sports use I always disable NR and leave white balance auto:
Shooting Menu
White Balance = AUTO
Active D Lighting = Off
Long Exp. NR = OFF
High ISO NR = OFF
To help conserve battery life
Playback Menu
Image review = OFF
Now set the button on the front of the camera to C (AF-C) and the AF switch on the rear of the camera to the middle setting (group dynamic AF). You can then change your focus point between 11 points and the camera will select the AF dynamically using one of the surrounding 21 points closest to your focus point. I have found this works really well for all types of moving subjects.
I think there are two seperate issues here. Is the lens simply not sharp at that focal length, or is the camera failing to track AF accurately?
The 70-200 shots you posted are techincally different as the car is at a fixed distance, ie tracking AF not really required.
When my system 'goes haywire' it's either because I've left it on spot metering, or am trying to use f3.5 in full sun with the fill-flash forcing the synch to 1/60th! There is always an answer, you just have to figure it out
The 70-200 shots you posted are techincally different as the car is at a fixed distance, ie tracking AF not really required.
When my system 'goes haywire' it's either because I've left it on spot metering, or am trying to use f3.5 in full sun with the fill-flash forcing the synch to 1/60th! There is always an answer, you just have to figure it out
The overall look reminds me of some shots I took at Silverstone a few weeks ago. Not totally unsharp but then nowhere you could point to and say 'ah, that's where it focused' Mind you I was using a lowly Canon 400D
I came to the conclusion that it was down to a reduction in light as things clouded over a little just after I fitted a polarizing filter. Thinking about it the lens was working at or about f5.6 as it was so the focusing system would have had little chance with an extra 2 stops when the light was dullest and, more evidently, with the darkest cars. Things improved, it seems but it's difficult to be sure, when I decided that sun was not about to make a big comeback and took the filter off.
My guess is that the focus system is unable to give specific meaningful information and so the next processing step gets a blanket value applied that results in a very soft file to grapple with in post processing.
In my case there is a strong probability that I had the wrong IS setting in play as well. One of the problems with IS for action shots is that remembering to switch between 2 settings - or maybe even 3 settings if you include "Off" between shots is a bit of a challenge too far much of the time.
Of the few shots that worked, is there anything notable that connects them that does not appear in the other shots? For example I wonder if the focusing system is thrown by the headlights in certain situtions. The cars seemed to be using headlights all the time which I thought a little odd but presumably there is a reason for it. That said if such a thing was a problem one would expect to find quite a few other photographers commenting on it as well.
I came to the conclusion that it was down to a reduction in light as things clouded over a little just after I fitted a polarizing filter. Thinking about it the lens was working at or about f5.6 as it was so the focusing system would have had little chance with an extra 2 stops when the light was dullest and, more evidently, with the darkest cars. Things improved, it seems but it's difficult to be sure, when I decided that sun was not about to make a big comeback and took the filter off.
My guess is that the focus system is unable to give specific meaningful information and so the next processing step gets a blanket value applied that results in a very soft file to grapple with in post processing.
In my case there is a strong probability that I had the wrong IS setting in play as well. One of the problems with IS for action shots is that remembering to switch between 2 settings - or maybe even 3 settings if you include "Off" between shots is a bit of a challenge too far much of the time.
Of the few shots that worked, is there anything notable that connects them that does not appear in the other shots? For example I wonder if the focusing system is thrown by the headlights in certain situtions. The cars seemed to be using headlights all the time which I thought a little odd but presumably there is a reason for it. That said if such a thing was a problem one would expect to find quite a few other photographers commenting on it as well.
LongQ said:
The overall look reminds me of some shots I took at Silverstone a few weeks ago. Not totally unsharp but then nowhere you could point to and say 'ah, that's where it focused' Mind you I was using a lowly Canon 400D
I came to the conclusion that it was down to a reduction in light as things clouded over a little just after I fitted a polarizing filter. Thinking about it the lens was working at or about f5.6 as it was so the focusing system would have had little chance with an extra 2 stops when the light was dullest and, more evidently, with the darkest cars. Things improved, it seems but it's difficult to be sure, when I decided that sun was not about to make a big comeback and took the filter off.
My guess is that the focus system is unable to give specific meaningful information and so the next processing step gets a blanket value applied that results in a very soft file to grapple with in post processing.
In my case there is a strong probability that I had the wrong IS setting in play as well. One of the problems with IS for action shots is that remembering to switch between 2 settings - or maybe even 3 settings if you include "Off" between shots is a bit of a challenge too far much of the time.
Of the few shots that worked, is there anything notable that connects them that does not appear in the other shots? For example I wonder if the focusing system is thrown by the headlights in certain situtions. The cars seemed to be using headlights all the time which I thought a little odd but presumably there is a reason for it. That said if such a thing was a problem one would expect to find quite a few other photographers commenting on it as well.
Having photographed Le Mans for a number of years, I try and avoid "full on" headlights because it doesn't throw the focus but sure shuts down the aperture! Over the weekend I tried everything, from manual and automatic ISO, from 200 to 2000 in manual mode, I tried aperture priority from f4 to f22, I tried shutter priority from 1/200th to 1/1000th. In desperation, I've phoned Nikon since I remember they had a list of recommended settings for the D3 on their site but I can't find it. They are sending it to me. I've also reset the camera to factory settings, I've re-read the instruction manual for the 200/400, I've consulted the oracle - in fact I've tried the lot. Tomorrow I'm going up the circuit and trying again, both in P,S and A modes (but I think, given the problem, that BS mode would be favourite) and comparing back home afterwards. If no go, it's off to Paris and talk to the Nikon boffins.I came to the conclusion that it was down to a reduction in light as things clouded over a little just after I fitted a polarizing filter. Thinking about it the lens was working at or about f5.6 as it was so the focusing system would have had little chance with an extra 2 stops when the light was dullest and, more evidently, with the darkest cars. Things improved, it seems but it's difficult to be sure, when I decided that sun was not about to make a big comeback and took the filter off.
My guess is that the focus system is unable to give specific meaningful information and so the next processing step gets a blanket value applied that results in a very soft file to grapple with in post processing.
In my case there is a strong probability that I had the wrong IS setting in play as well. One of the problems with IS for action shots is that remembering to switch between 2 settings - or maybe even 3 settings if you include "Off" between shots is a bit of a challenge too far much of the time.
Of the few shots that worked, is there anything notable that connects them that does not appear in the other shots? For example I wonder if the focusing system is thrown by the headlights in certain situtions. The cars seemed to be using headlights all the time which I thought a little odd but presumably there is a reason for it. That said if such a thing was a problem one would expect to find quite a few other photographers commenting on it as well.
One final thought, have you set your D3 to "focus release" when tracking? This will only let the shutter release when the image is sharp. I can't for the life of me remember what the other release mode is called that does let the camera take an out of focus shot.
I also use the 200-400 for birds in flight and I get some very sharp results.
One final thought, have you upgraded the D3 to the latest firmware. I believe it was released a couple of months ago to cure a number of issues including telling you the cards were full when they had plenty of capacity left.
I also use the 200-400 for birds in flight and I get some very sharp results.
One final thought, have you upgraded the D3 to the latest firmware. I believe it was released a couple of months ago to cure a number of issues including telling you the cards were full when they had plenty of capacity left.
Because that would use all 51 points around the single point I selected as my focus point. You need to keep the group tight around your focus point for best results, hence prioritising 1 point and using the 21 surrounding ones. In reality it sticks very close to the single point anyway.
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