Spent Speeding Convictions

[ianpicknell]

According to the DVLA, a speeding conviction must remain on a license for 4 years from the date of conviction, but after that time can be removed via form D1. (Details at www.dvla.gov.uk/drivers/endorsem.htm)

But most car insurance application forms seem to ask questions like "Have you had your licence endorsed following a motoring offence in the last 5 years?" or "Have you been disqualified in the last 5 years?"

I have an SP50 conviction (which resulted in a 14-day ban) which is now 4.5 years old. Assuming I use form D1 to remove the endorsement from my license, do I need to declare it to potential insurance companies?

[MajorClanger]

Yes, in a word. If they ask you specifically whether you have had any convictions in the past 5 years you MUST declare that to them accurately if they ask. And it's a bit of a grey area whether it relates to date of offence or date of conviction.

MC

[Neil Menzies]

Absolutely. If you don't, you're not covered, because you didn't give them information you knew of in utmost good faith.
Insurance companies can ask for 10 years of convictions if they so choose, its got nothing to do with being on your licence or not.

[ianpicknell]

Hmmm. Shame.

I like this 'grey area' between offence and conviction date, though. The exact question the RAC on-line application asks is "Have you had your licence endorsed following a motoring offence in the last 5 years?". From this wording I'd measure 5 years from the offence date. (This actually means I can answer "No".) If they'd meant 5 years from conviction date they'd have asked "Have you had your licence endorsed in the last 5 years following a motoring offence?". Agreed?

"Have you been disqualified in the last 5 years?" is a little too clear though. This is the date of disqualification - i.e. date of conviction. So I have to say "Yes".

Thanks for you help.

[craigtonner]

Having spoken to a friend in the Insurance business he has said that it is simply an insurance scam - surprise surprise.
An insurance company cannot contact the DVLA without your authority. But I suppose if they do they you would be in trouble if they found out.

[VTECDave]

Er, couple of related questions:

I thought that points didnae count after 3 years and could be reomoved after 4 years?

Insurance companies used to/ sometimes still ask....

"Any convictions?" I would argue that a fixed penalty eg: SP30 is not a conviction so they don't need to know unless they ask "any convictions of fixed penalty endorsements"

[charltm]

is SP30 really not a conviction?

[mondeoman]

Isn't this a case of a conviction has to come from a court, therefore an SP30 isn't one?

I also thought points for speeding were "spent" after three years. I hope to god its not 4 or I could be in BIG trouble ( I can only manage about a year at a time without one speeding offence! )

[ianpicknell]

I think it depends on what you mean by 'spent'. From the DVLA site: "Any driver who incurs 12 or more penalty points within a 3-year period faces automatic disqualification under the under "totting -up" system." (Their typo, not mine.)

But it also says "Endorsements must remain on a licence for ... 4 years from the date of offence in all other cases." (Speeding which did not result in disqualification is caught by "all other cases".)

I read this to mean that although points which are > 3 years old don't count under the totting-up system, they must remain printed on your license until 4 years from the date of offence.

[ianpicknell]

Just to pick up on Neil's point that "insurance companies can ask for 10 years of convictions if they so choose", it seems that this is not the case.

From "A simple guide to the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974" at www.disclosure.gov.uk/docs/pdf/simple%20guide%20to%20ROA.pdf (note that this is a Government site, so is hopefully accurate):
"If your conviction is spent under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, you can say ‘no’ if an employer or insurance company asks if you have a conviction."

For an offence where the conviction resulted in a fine, it is spent after 5 years (from the date of conviction).

So...
between 0 and 4 years: on license, must tell insurance company
between 4 and 5 years: not on license, must tell insurance company
after 5 years: not on license, don't tell insurance company

Ian.

[mel]

That tallies with a little trip to court I had many years ago for doing the big100 and getting caught. I had what I thought was a clean license (I'd moved house after 4ish years and license came back clean) However in court they produced a print out from DVLA giving my record for the last 5 years which included some points

[tallchris99]

Just a small point. You are covered if you have a certificate of insurance. If you lied about say a drunk driving conviction you are still covered in the event of an accident but the insurance company will never issue with cover again and may press for prosecution under the theft act ie obtaining a pecuniary advantage through deception.

[Neil Menzies]

There seems to be a confusion of two issues here.

Points on a licence have various rules associated with them, and can lead to a ban under totting up. Points from speeding tend to count for totting up for three years, but stay on the license for four years. Points from drink driving stay on the licence for 10 years.

Insurance companies ask about driving convictions. This has no bearing whatsoever on the life of points on your licence. If you fail to disclose convictions in the requested period (notwithstanding the Rehabilitation stuff posted), you have failed to act in the utmost good faith, and you may not be covered by the insurance.