Proper supercars are naturally aspirated not turbocharged...

[Mario149]

...discuss

I thought it'd be interesting to get opinions. I just don't get excited by forced induction engines in cars, even with things like the Veyron. 911 turbos are immensely capable, but somehow it just seems like cheating - whack a turbo on, up the boost, minimise lag, bob's your father's brother. Whereas when BMW comes out with a saloon car with a 500bhp+ V10 or Ferrari achieving 109 bhp/litre with a 12.5k mile service interval back in '94, that excites me!

Even when I think about the new Maclaren MP4-12C, the turbo V8 seems like a cop out, I'm a actually much more interested in the carbon tub as a tech advancement!
What does everyone else think and why?

[Rollcage]

F40 not a proper supercar?

[Ry_B]

[McSam]

Could be a good one, this, I hope some interesting examples and counter-examples come up

My call on this one is that generally, yeah, it should be naturally aspirated. There's a certain something from a very, very tightly wound engine having its balls whipped that you just can't get any other way - I'm thinking of anything from a Caterham R500 at full chat to a Lexus LFA, and perhaps even the Ferrari FXX. It just sends a chill down my spine that you can't get with forced induction!

That said, good luck to someone arguing against the F40 (straight in there, Rollcage ) or indeed Koenigsegg's spectacular efforts. There are a few that make it work, spectacularly, but given the choice.. Make her scream, not bellow, even if it's slower

Edited by McSam on Saturday 19th June 20:11

[LeoSayer]

The last 2 Bugattis had 4 turbos each. They're both pretty super.

[dougc]

Current or recent hyper/supercars

NA
Zonda
Enzo (FXX)
599GTO
All Murcielago variants
Aston One77 (and all Astons)
Carerra GT
Lexus LFA

FI
McMerc SLR/SLS/SL Black
Koenigsegg CCR/CCX
Veyron
Gumpert Apollo

Any more for any more?

[Newc]

You've seen the last n/a models. Emissions control will require turbos on all future supercars until we transition to electric.

[McSam]

Ferrari 458, but then I suppose we could put all Fezzas for the past fifteen years under that banner. The Apollo's an interesting one, because I was going to say that forced induction makes things inherently less exciting - Veyron, McMercs - but that and the F40 prove that it can work for white knuckles, if in a lightweight application. Hmmm..

Still not got the noise, though.

[mat205125]

My personal preference would always be for an NA car, and would gladly sacrifice some horses and straight line pace for an NA engine - No one can convince me that the Turbo 911s are superior to the GT3 NA engined cars.

The Ferrari F40, however, has always been a favourite of mine, and I can see the new McLaren being my lottery choice over the established Ferrari and Lambo competition. Not that there will be any sleep lost in the factories board rooms, however being forced induction is a big part of my dismissing Veyrons and Koenigeggs as aspirational toys, yet the Zonda is something to covet.

[mrmr96]

Mario149 said:

I just don't get excited by forced induction engines in cars, [n/a cars] excite me!

Ok, well I like turbo cars. The kick you get when it comes on boost is awesome. And as you said, they are really tune-able.

It's horses for courses. Some people like dogs and others like cats, but that doesn't mean dogs are better than cats or vice versa.

"Proper supercars" is a matter of definition, and you're going to be at loggerheads with someone who doesn't share your definition. There's no 'standard' definition so you're not going to be able to resolve an answer.

[OlberJ]

mrmr96 said:

Mario149 said:

I just don't get excited by forced induction engines in cars, [n/a cars] excite me!

Ok, well I like turbo cars. The kick you get when it comes on boost is awesome. And as you said, they are really tune-able.

It's horses for courses. Some people like dogs and others like cats, but that doesn't mean dogs are better than cats or vice versa.

"Proper supercars" is a matter of definition, and you're going to be at loggerheads with someone who doesn't share your definition. There's no 'standard' definition so you're not going to be able to resolve an answer.

You're wrong on both counts. N/A and dogs, all the way


Screaming N/A gives more visceral thrills than artifical induction, it's not just the accelerating, it's the on/off/on/off tiny adjustments that make driving truly special.

There's more feeling in an N/A.

And yes, as much as the F40 and the other cars noted here are great cars, the N/A versions i'm 99% sure would be more exciting to drive.

[markcoznottz]

Sound. Thats why people choose large capacity NA lumps. Pure exotic, glorious noise...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDVB27h0wLE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pinw1pZypxU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOhEdu9PHhQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4spHpz9X2CA&fea...

[mat205125]

Worth a note that the 288 GTO that the F40 was ultimately developed from, was forced induction by necessity of homologation regulations. Given a blank piece of paper, one can only speculate as to whether turbo or NA would have been the way to go.

[rhinochopig]

OlberJ said:

mrmr96 said:

Mario149 said:

I just don't get excited by forced induction engines in cars, [n/a cars] excite me!

Ok, well I like turbo cars. The kick you get when it comes on boost is awesome. And as you said, they are really tune-able.

It's horses for courses. Some people like dogs and others like cats, but that doesn't mean dogs are better than cats or vice versa.

"Proper supercars" is a matter of definition, and you're going to be at loggerheads with someone who doesn't share your definition. There's no 'standard' definition so you're not going to be able to resolve an answer.

You're wrong on both counts. N/A and dogs, all the way


Screaming N/A gives more visceral thrills than artifical induction, it's not just the accelerating, it's the on/off/on/off tiny adjustments that make driving truly special.

There's more feeling in an N/A.

And yes, as much as the F40 and the other cars noted here are great cars, the N/A versions i'm 99% sure would be more exciting to drive.

As ever there is always an exception. One of the finest engine notes ever and forced induction.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Vy7UgCwEkk

[djone101]

Ford GT - Supercharged rather than turbo. The sound is immense (depending on the exhaust chosen) and the sheer torque from all revs takes some beating.

[markcoznottz]

rhinochopig said:

OlberJ said:

mrmr96 said:

Mario149 said:

I just don't get excited by forced induction engines in cars, [n/a cars] excite me!

Ok, well I like turbo cars. The kick you get when it comes on boost is awesome. And as you said, they are really tune-able.

It's horses for courses. Some people like dogs and others like cats, but that doesn't mean dogs are better than cats or vice versa.

"Proper supercars" is a matter of definition, and you're going to be at loggerheads with someone who doesn't share your definition. There's no 'standard' definition so you're not going to be able to resolve an answer.

You're wrong on both counts. N/A and dogs, all the way


Screaming N/A gives more visceral thrills than artifical induction, it's not just the accelerating, it's the on/off/on/off tiny adjustments that make driving truly special.

There's more feeling in an N/A.

And yes, as much as the F40 and the other cars noted here are great cars, the N/A versions i'm 99% sure would be more exciting to drive.

As ever there is always an exception. One of the finest engine notes ever and forced induction.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Vy7UgCwEkk

Its more evocative than truley tuneful. Its more soul stirring, in a kind of wall of noise way.

[tigerkoi]

Porsche 959

[Colin 1985]

Newc said:

You've seen the last n/a models. Emissions control will require turbos on all future supercars...

I do love the high rev of a powerful N/A. Turbo power just seems a little modified Barry boy in some ways.

[poing]

Ferrari 288GTO - turbo.

[Rollcage]

The exhaust note of this F40 LM is pretty epic, I would say!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YPabCzxMXM