Alcohol fuel?

[toast boy]

Apologies if this is a repost but the search isn't working at the minute and I don't remember seeing this discussed recently. Why is alcohol used as fuel not being widely used? From what little I understand it creates less pollution than petrol and comes from a renewable resource. What modifications are required to run a car on alcohol?

[Austin.J]

Having no clue about anything on this subject.

Won't it cost a fortune?

[ZesPak]

This thread made me think of Amy Winehouse in a "flinstone" car.

Edited by ZesPak on Monday 21st June 10:53

[RobCrezz]

Less energy than petrol. Petrol is cheaper.





... I think.

Edited by RobCrezz on Monday 21st June 10:52

[The Wookie]

Controversy with the fuel sharing its source with the food supply

Also debateable wether using it actually saves fossil fuel as it uses a fair bit of energy to produce it, and we all know where that usually comes from.

However, some cars can run it with no modifications, the rest typically need a few changes to the fuelling system to prevent it corroding the rubber and plastic, and despite the reduction in energy content over gasoline, it has higher knock resistance allowing more ignition advance and/or compression ratio meaning it can be burnt more efficiently.

It can also be bought from a select few petrol stations, and the only one I've ever seen it sold at it was about 90p a litre last time I went there (a few months ago) if my memory serves me correctly.

[Furyous]

Alcohol used in racing engines (methanol) can eat rubber o rings and seals with ease if left in contact.

[toast boy]

RobCrezz said:

Less energy than petrol. Petrol is cheaper.





... I think.

Edited by RobCrezz on Monday 21st June 10:52

I thought that some dragsters/race cars ran on alcohol? Maybe methanol? I don't really know much about it to be honest, hence the thread. The question was in my head mainly because of the electric cars thread, I appreciate it may not be a totally green energy but if people were really concerned about the environment surely it would be worth using a different energy source rather than petrol, especially if existing cars could be converted for use reasonably easily. I'd much rather have an old car with an internal combustion engine running alcohol than an electric milkfloat.

[RobCrezz]

toast boy said:

RobCrezz said:

Less energy than petrol. Petrol is cheaper.





... I think.

Edited by RobCrezz on Monday 21st June 10:52

I thought that some dragsters/race cars ran on alcohol? Maybe methanol? I don't really know much about it to be honest, hence the thread. The question was in my head mainly because of the electric cars thread, I appreciate it may not be a totally green energy but if people were really concerned about the environment surely it would be worth using a different energy source rather than petrol, especially if existing cars could be converted for use reasonably easily. I'd much rather have an old car with an internal combustion engine running alcohol than an electric milkfloat.

Yeah, methanol is great for getting lots of power due to having a very high octane rating, but you have to use lots and lots of it as it doesnt have as much energy.

[grumbledoak]

I believe it is quite common in South America. Brasil is clearing rain-forest to grow crops for fuel, which has the greenies foaming at the mouth. Which is nice.

[garethj]

grumbledoak said:

I believe it is quite common in South America. Brasil is clearing rain-forest to grow crops for fuel

VW of Brasil was making alcohol powered engines back in the early 1980s, the VW Fusca álcool was popular there.

[checkmate91]

Furyous said:

Alcohol used in racing engines (methanol) can eat rubber o rings and seals with ease if left in contact.

+1. Alcohol fuel lacks the lubricity of petrol and modifications (not sure what) are required from car manufacturers to enable their products to run 85% alco fuel. We have fuels in the UK which have a small proportion of alco fuel in them, Tesco 99 for example has 5% bioethanol.

[glazbagun]

There's also a limit to how much water is available for agriculture. Crop-based fuels aren't the answer to our energy needs unless we somehow wipe out half of the earths population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_resources#Water...

The only answers I can see are either mass nuclear adoption and development of appropriate technologies to allow us to rely on electricity, or else simply a massive drop in our standards of living- driving slower everywhere in cars which arent as powerful. I'm a big fan of low-tech magazine, actually. Consumerism is simply not a sustainable method of living any more.

IMO, our stock of fossil fuels is an unrepeatable treasure that we're rapidly squandering. If we ever get to Mars, or whatever, we'll look back in wonder at the guys who could just pump and crack something so useful out of the ground.

[glazbagun]

Actually, since I've already brought it up, check out this for an alternative fuel source:

http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2010/01/wood-gas-ca...

[The Wookie]

toast boy said:

The question was in my head mainly because of the electric cars thread, I appreciate it may not be a totally green energy but if people were really concerned about the environment surely it would be worth using a different energy source rather than petrol, especially if existing cars could be converted for use reasonably easily.

The answer you're looking for is Methanol. It can be efficiently created directly from the CO2 in the air without threatening food stocks. If the formation process were powered by Nuclear, it would effectively create a closed loop CO2 cycle

It has a lot less energy content than either Gasoline or Ethanol, but if it were priced by energy content rather than volume compared to petrol then the only disadvantage would be a reduction in tank range.