Have you been effected by a disaster?
Discussion
There is something from my past, that still effects me today. Barely a week will go by without me thinking about it.
It just got me wondering if I am alone in being affected by a disaster that really had nothing to do with me, but which moved me and influenced me to this day..
21 December 1988 - the Lockerbie disaster.
I was 18 and in my local pub on Tyneside, when the landord announced that "something bad has really happened with a plane in the borders." First reactions were that it was some sort of military jet crash - they happen now and then in that part of the world.
Returning from the pub, the full horror unfolded on TV.
I knew the borders quite well - childhood holidays and the like. I can't particluarly remember Lockerbie but what happened really shocked and upset me.
Years have passed and I have read so much about what happened in books and on the Web.
The tales are so bloody sad and moving. Aside from the poor souls on the aircraft, its the totally unconnected deaths on the ground. The little girl eagerly waiting for Christmas, the grandparents, the mums, dads. Good honest decent people a milion miles away from international poltics destroyed, their homes vapourised, wreckage littering the town, bodies on rooftops, in fields.
Utter carnage like some revenge from hell.
My feeling is how dare someone (Lybia, whoever) do this to these people. How dare they destroy a community and blight it with an international reputation for years to come. How dare tehy fapourise familes sitting at home putting up Christmas decorations, how bloody dare they do this. A little country borders town - peaceful, non threatening.
I recently found out that the women folk of Lockerbie gathered up the belongings of the dead air passengers, sorted them, washed and ironed them, and sent them back to the families.
Such a simple act of respect and love, from people who were victims themselves, to other victims. Deeply deeply moving.
I always avoided going there. Thought it would be ghoulish to go just for the sake of it. But my life changed, I got married and we started spending a lot of time up in that part of the world at weekends. Eventually, roads took us to Lockerbie.
I have only stopped once - at the very moving memorial just outside town.
I'll probably not stop again, though I pass through the town every few months now. There is a road above the town and you can look down on it. Perhaps because I have read so many books/articles about it, I can vaguely work out the places where things happened.
Its just so bloody sad and 20 odd years on, it makes me so bloody angry and full of awe at the bravery of this community.
Anyone have a similar experience?
It just got me wondering if I am alone in being affected by a disaster that really had nothing to do with me, but which moved me and influenced me to this day..
21 December 1988 - the Lockerbie disaster.
I was 18 and in my local pub on Tyneside, when the landord announced that "something bad has really happened with a plane in the borders." First reactions were that it was some sort of military jet crash - they happen now and then in that part of the world.
Returning from the pub, the full horror unfolded on TV.
I knew the borders quite well - childhood holidays and the like. I can't particluarly remember Lockerbie but what happened really shocked and upset me.
Years have passed and I have read so much about what happened in books and on the Web.
The tales are so bloody sad and moving. Aside from the poor souls on the aircraft, its the totally unconnected deaths on the ground. The little girl eagerly waiting for Christmas, the grandparents, the mums, dads. Good honest decent people a milion miles away from international poltics destroyed, their homes vapourised, wreckage littering the town, bodies on rooftops, in fields.
Utter carnage like some revenge from hell.
My feeling is how dare someone (Lybia, whoever) do this to these people. How dare they destroy a community and blight it with an international reputation for years to come. How dare tehy fapourise familes sitting at home putting up Christmas decorations, how bloody dare they do this. A little country borders town - peaceful, non threatening.
I recently found out that the women folk of Lockerbie gathered up the belongings of the dead air passengers, sorted them, washed and ironed them, and sent them back to the families.
Such a simple act of respect and love, from people who were victims themselves, to other victims. Deeply deeply moving.
I always avoided going there. Thought it would be ghoulish to go just for the sake of it. But my life changed, I got married and we started spending a lot of time up in that part of the world at weekends. Eventually, roads took us to Lockerbie.
I have only stopped once - at the very moving memorial just outside town.
I'll probably not stop again, though I pass through the town every few months now. There is a road above the town and you can look down on it. Perhaps because I have read so many books/articles about it, I can vaguely work out the places where things happened.
Its just so bloody sad and 20 odd years on, it makes me so bloody angry and full of awe at the bravery of this community.
Anyone have a similar experience?
Edited by wildcat45 on Tuesday 22 June 14:06
Whilst I sympathise with those involved in such disasters, none of them have directly affected me or those close to me, therefore I don't get upset.
The only thing that springs to mind was drawing a picture of the Challenger orbiter when I was a child. I thought it was a terrible thing to happen at the time.
The only thing that springs to mind was drawing a picture of the Challenger orbiter when I was a child. I thought it was a terrible thing to happen at the time.
wildcat45 said:
My feeling is how dare someone (Lybia, whoever) do this to these people. How dare they destroy a community and blight it with an international reputation for years to come. How dare tehy fapourise familes sitting at home putting up Christmas decorations, how bloody dare they do this. A little country borders town - peaceful, non threatening.
Yeah, the West have never done anything like that have they? The Iraq war must make you cry into your beer.
Wildcat,
Tragic as it is, and movingly told etc- but why Lockerbie?
As you have no connection to it at all- why does this haunt you any more than, for example, 800 000 innocent people being butchered by machetes in Rwanda in the space of 6 weeks?
(Im not being argumentative- Im genuinely curious)
Tragic as it is, and movingly told etc- but why Lockerbie?
As you have no connection to it at all- why does this haunt you any more than, for example, 800 000 innocent people being butchered by machetes in Rwanda in the space of 6 weeks?
(Im not being argumentative- Im genuinely curious)
Affected - Effected - both definitions seem to fit. But its not about that.
As for the West doing bad stuff. Totally agree. its not about tit for tat - who is right and who is wrong. its about a particular incident, taken in isolation about what happened on the ground to the people. If I had been familiar with an Iraqi town that was devestated by a JDAM or whatever - then yes, I may well be crying into my beer. Maybe the Titanic, or 911 or Aberfan (SP?)
In a very very small way I was involved as a civvy in the second Gulf War. I am not particluarly proud of that. But its not the point.
Have you been effected, affected (I think the affected camp is right by the way - my bad) by something that really has had nothing to do with you.
As for the West doing bad stuff. Totally agree. its not about tit for tat - who is right and who is wrong. its about a particular incident, taken in isolation about what happened on the ground to the people. If I had been familiar with an Iraqi town that was devestated by a JDAM or whatever - then yes, I may well be crying into my beer. Maybe the Titanic, or 911 or Aberfan (SP?)
In a very very small way I was involved as a civvy in the second Gulf War. I am not particluarly proud of that. But its not the point.
Have you been effected, affected (I think the affected camp is right by the way - my bad) by something that really has had nothing to do with you.
I suppose because I could identify with it more. It was a place or rather an area I knew well. A peaceful, nice place, then the world came knocking one night with some very bad s
t.
its not that I am saying it is any worse than any other disaster. I just felt connected to it by anger. Just so angry about what happened to these people in a decent little town.
I guess - if the plane had gone down over the sea - I'd not be writing this.
I can't make sense of it myself - only that the anger and hurt I feel about it is real and still there.
Very wierd I know.
t.its not that I am saying it is any worse than any other disaster. I just felt connected to it by anger. Just so angry about what happened to these people in a decent little town.
I guess - if the plane had gone down over the sea - I'd not be writing this.
I can't make sense of it myself - only that the anger and hurt I feel about it is real and still there.
Very wierd I know.
MudwiG said:
Lefty 200 Drams said:
"Affected"
Was there really a need to do that?History is littered with cruelty and injustice - if we're not inflicting it on each other, nature is inflicting it on us. I appreciate that things are vastly different for those directly involved in such incidents, but for most people, there just isn't time in the day to think about the untold millions who have died needlessly over the years.
In the (thankfully) rare instances where the losses were on a global scale, we specifically make time to remember those who died.
Just had a little read about the Lockerbie bombing, and this sentence sent a massive shiver up my spine "David McMullon, a helicopter pilot who was involved in the search for bodies, claimed to have found one victim who was clutching a handful of grass". Such a horrible thought that some of the passengers and crew may have been alive as they fell;
Wikipedia said:
Although the passengers would have lost consciousness through lack of oxygen, forensic examiners believe some of them might have regained consciousness as they fell toward oxygen-rich lower altitudes. Forensic pathologist Dr William G. Eckert, director of the Milton Helpern International Center of Forensic Sciences at Wichita State University, who examined the autopsy evidence, told Scottish police he believed the flight crew, some of the flight attendants, and 147 other passengers survived the bomb blast and depressurisation of the aircraft, and may have been alive on impact.
Because it was 'close to home' so to speak, you found yourself personally invested in it. that's not surprising, nor is it unusual. If a 'disaster', as you put it takes place somewhere you don't know, and affects (yes, affects) people you don't know, you'll inevitably feel less traumatised by it - certainly over the long term.
When it's places or people you know, the scale of what happened seems so much greater because your part of the world is only a small piece of the whole.
When it's places or people you know, the scale of what happened seems so much greater because your part of the world is only a small piece of the whole.
Edited by Doofus on Tuesday 22 June 09:46
on the subject of Lockerbie, the wreckage of the aircraft is still kept in a lockup at a scrapyard a few miles from me.
apparently their are still ongoing insurance issues, so the wreckage must be kept.
Not too sure on the accuracy of this, but was told by a workmate who is credible.
apparently their are still ongoing insurance issues, so the wreckage must be kept.
Not too sure on the accuracy of this, but was told by a workmate who is credible.
Edited by Cara van Man on Tuesday 22 June 09:54
Cara van Man said:
on the subject of Lockerbie, the wreckage of the aircraft is still kept in a lockup at a scrapyard a few miles from me.
apparently their are still ongoing insurance issues, so the wreckage must be kept.
Not too sure on the accuracy of this, but was told by a workmate who is credible.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1098300/Tw...apparently their are still ongoing insurance issues, so the wreckage must be kept.
Not too sure on the accuracy of this, but was told by a workmate who is credible.
Edited by Cara van Man on Tuesday 22 June 09:54
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 22 June 09:59
Bluequay said:
Cara van Man said:
on the subject of Lockerbie, the wreckage of the aircraft is still kept in a lockup at a scrapyard a few miles from me.
apparently their are still ongoing insurance issues, so the wreckage must be kept.
Not too sure on the accuracy of this, but was told by a workmate who is credible.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1098300/Tw...apparently their are still ongoing insurance issues, so the wreckage must be kept.
Not too sure on the accuracy of this, but was told by a workmate who is credible.
Edited by Cara van Man on Tuesday 22 June 09:54
Edited by Bluequay on Tuesday 22 June 09:59
Some of it would be in the buildings that he pointed out to me.
Edited by Cara van Man on Tuesday 22 June 10:01
When 103 came down, I was at a charity stag do in my local town. I was 19. I'd never even heard of Lockerbie.
As I got older I started travelling a bit with work and socially and made regular trips up and down the M74. I still get a shiver down my spine every time I'm passing and see road signs with the town's name on them.
I think I've only ever stopped there once with work.
I had heard the theory about some of the passengers and crew being conscious on impact, in fact I read somewhere that some of them were alive briefly afterwards from reports of some of them still moving and breathing and the pilot was still gripping the yoke in the cockpit.
As I got older I started travelling a bit with work and socially and made regular trips up and down the M74. I still get a shiver down my spine every time I'm passing and see road signs with the town's name on them.
I think I've only ever stopped there once with work.
I had heard the theory about some of the passengers and crew being conscious on impact, in fact I read somewhere that some of them were alive briefly afterwards from reports of some of them still moving and breathing and the pilot was still gripping the yoke in the cockpit.
Rather an odd one to fixate on, if you have no connection. There have been worse air disasters, one that springs to mind was in Japan, where the plane lost steering and everyone had time to write goodbye letters to their relatives before it smashed into a mountainside. I'll happily not give that too much thought.
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