DIY Oil (and water) Pump rebuild
Discussion
Anyone tackled this before, from what I've read it seems most people leave this job to a TVR specialist.
I've had a look through the build process in the AJP build manual and it doesn't look hard, just maybe a little tricky. The one thing that does raise an eyebrow is the fact that the use of "The Special Mandrel" is required a couple of times. Is this specific tool definitely required, or can it be substituted by the clever use, or manipulation of, a socket, or similar?
Or is it really worth just handing over £300+ for what is mostly a labour process?
I've had a look through the build process in the AJP build manual and it doesn't look hard, just maybe a little tricky. The one thing that does raise an eyebrow is the fact that the use of "The Special Mandrel" is required a couple of times. Is this specific tool definitely required, or can it be substituted by the clever use, or manipulation of, a socket, or similar?
Or is it really worth just handing over £300+ for what is mostly a labour process?
Sorry can't answer your question but I have one for you. When you say the AJP build manual, is this the the manuals you can get from the Cerb site IE the part B,C,D etc, or another manual more like an mechanics workshop manual? I ask as I get the impression that there might be such a useful manual but I have never come across it yet. Regards
This is the sole reason that my engine is coming back out as I'm getting oil in the water system. Have spoken to the engine builder (a chap that works in Blackpool and who was responseable for all the Tuscan race cars) and a respected indi and they've both said it's more than likely this !
From what i can gather it's a fairly tricky job to do as there is a picular seal type system going on in there that uses (what can best be described as) a large ceramic washer that only seals fully once it's up to pressure but it's a bit of a fine art to actually get it right. Apologies if i'm stating the obvious to you here but, you are aware that the engine has to come out and the timing has to be lost on the engine to do this?
From what i can gather it's a fairly tricky job to do as there is a picular seal type system going on in there that uses (what can best be described as) a large ceramic washer that only seals fully once it's up to pressure but it's a bit of a fine art to actually get it right. Apologies if i'm stating the obvious to you here but, you are aware that the engine has to come out and the timing has to be lost on the engine to do this?
Yea, that's exactly why I'm debating in my head over whether to do this now. Currently got the engine out, changing the timing chain and camshafts. Timing cover is already off and would be a 5 minute job at the moment to take the pumps off. However I'm going to be really stretching myself to try and afford to have the pumps professionally rebuild, along with affording the few other bits and pieces necessary to get the car back on the road.
I've heard one of the other problems with rebuilding the pumps is that it's hard to get the seals to stay where they should sit whilst you assemble everything, and that you won't know if any of them have shifted until you get everything back together, engine back in and find your oil pressure all over the place.
I've heard one of the other problems with rebuilding the pumps is that it's hard to get the seals to stay where they should sit whilst you assemble everything, and that you won't know if any of them have shifted until you get everything back together, engine back in and find your oil pressure all over the place.
M3John said:
This is the sole reason that my engine is coming back out as I'm getting oil in the water system. Have spoken to the engine builder (a chap that works in Blackpool and who was responseable for all the Tuscan race cars) and a respected indi and they've both said it's more than likely this !
From what i can gather it's a fairly tricky job to do as there is a picular seal type system going on in there that uses (what can best be described as) a large ceramic washer that only seals fully once it's up to pressure but it's a bit of a fine art to actually get it right. Apologies if i'm stating the obvious to you here but, you are aware that the engine has to come out and the timing has to be lost on the engine to do this?
I had my oil / water pump refurbed as part of the engine work I had done recently. It may have been a contributor to oil in the water. The cause though is thought to have been a less than smooth surface on the heads. The heads and block need to be as smooth as glass on AJPs or you will risk contamination. So I wouldnt assume it is one problem - I would identify all the things that it might be (gaskets, O rings, pump, head surfaces etc) and ensure the builder checks all of this. From what i can gather it's a fairly tricky job to do as there is a picular seal type system going on in there that uses (what can best be described as) a large ceramic washer that only seals fully once it's up to pressure but it's a bit of a fine art to actually get it right. Apologies if i'm stating the obvious to you here but, you are aware that the engine has to come out and the timing has to be lost on the engine to do this?
My oil water pump is currently in pieces in my garage and has been for some time. My water impeller is also broken by my own hand.
It wasn't that difficult to take apart but does rather suffer from the fact that there is one part of the disassembly when all you can do is apply pressure to the impeller until it gives. You can employ temperature all you like but when it comes down to it, its either got to move or break.
Apparently originals are rockinghorse manure, but even at the time I was taking mine apart I believe dom was trying to find a source of remanufactured ones.
Depending on how much these cost I was going to replace the one I have by making a new one. (Not as hard as it sounds as they are simply straight vains not double curved turbine like things).
What I can say to you though is that if I had seen one in pieces I might not have broken mine.
It wasn't that difficult to take apart but does rather suffer from the fact that there is one part of the disassembly when all you can do is apply pressure to the impeller until it gives. You can employ temperature all you like but when it comes down to it, its either got to move or break.
Apparently originals are rockinghorse manure, but even at the time I was taking mine apart I believe dom was trying to find a source of remanufactured ones.
Depending on how much these cost I was going to replace the one I have by making a new one. (Not as hard as it sounds as they are simply straight vains not double curved turbine like things).
What I can say to you though is that if I had seen one in pieces I might not have broken mine.
When you get the impeller out it becomes more obvious that the impeller is a casting not machined from block. The only machined bit seems to be the pecision mating to the spindle.
Castings are strong but brittle. If it had been machined from block I reckon I'd have got away with levering the blades. Might have bent one but not broken it.
As a casting I would have been more inclined to build a lifter for it. A cage that lifted on multiple points rather than the two points I used.
Easy to be retrospective about these things. Thats why I'm still keen to get one of these guys to take a rack apart. Hence my other post.
Castings are strong but brittle. If it had been machined from block I reckon I'd have got away with levering the blades. Might have bent one but not broken it.
As a casting I would have been more inclined to build a lifter for it. A cage that lifted on multiple points rather than the two points I used.
Easy to be retrospective about these things. Thats why I'm still keen to get one of these guys to take a rack apart. Hence my other post.
jammy_basturd said:
Yea, that's exactly why I'm debating in my head over whether to do this now. Currently got the engine out, changing the timing chain and camshafts. Timing cover is already off and would be a 5 minute job at the moment to take the pumps off. However I'm going to be really stretching myself to try and afford to have the pumps professionally rebuild, along with affording the few other bits and pieces necessary to get the car back on the road.
I've heard one of the other problems with rebuilding the pumps is that it's hard to get the seals to stay where they should sit whilst you assemble everything, and that you won't know if any of them have shifted until you get everything back together, engine back in and find your oil pressure all over the place.
Could you afford to take the engine back out when you find that the pump is leaking? I've heard one of the other problems with rebuilding the pumps is that it's hard to get the seals to stay where they should sit whilst you assemble everything, and that you won't know if any of them have shifted until you get everything back together, engine back in and find your oil pressure all over the place.
It will be better to do it now, although its not a cheap thing to do.
I had mine rebuilt when my engine was being rebuilt. Its not an easy job, the engine builder I used wouldn't do it, he sent it away to an ex-factory guy. Luckily my engine was pressure tested before being put back in the car which showed the leak up.
It wouldn't be difficult to check before replacing that it was all working. You'd only need something to turn the shaft, and time a bucket fill for comparison
Didn't a chap on here modify the pump in some way to get an auxillary oil pump working so he could make sure the top of the engine was covered in oil before he started
Didn't a chap on here modify the pump in some way to get an auxillary oil pump working so he could make sure the top of the engine was covered in oil before he started
Gazzab said:
M3John said:
This is the sole reason that my engine is coming back out as I'm getting oil in the water system. Have spoken to the engine builder (a chap that works in Blackpool and who was responseable for all the Tuscan race cars) and a respected indi and they've both said it's more than likely this !
From what i can gather it's a fairly tricky job to do as there is a picular seal type system going on in there that uses (what can best be described as) a large ceramic washer that only seals fully once it's up to pressure but it's a bit of a fine art to actually get it right. Apologies if i'm stating the obvious to you here but, you are aware that the engine has to come out and the timing has to be lost on the engine to do this?
I had my oil / water pump refurbed as part of the engine work I had done recently. It may have been a contributor to oil in the water. The cause though is thought to have been a less than smooth surface on the heads. The heads and block need to be as smooth as glass on AJPs or you will risk contamination. So I wouldnt assume it is one problem - I would identify all the things that it might be (gaskets, O rings, pump, head surfaces etc) and ensure the builder checks all of this. From what i can gather it's a fairly tricky job to do as there is a picular seal type system going on in there that uses (what can best be described as) a large ceramic washer that only seals fully once it's up to pressure but it's a bit of a fine art to actually get it right. Apologies if i'm stating the obvious to you here but, you are aware that the engine has to come out and the timing has to be lost on the engine to do this?
Gazzab said:
Gazzab said:
M3John said:
This is the sole reason that my engine is coming back out as I'm getting oil in the water system. Have spoken to the engine builder (a chap that works in Blackpool and who was responseable for all the Tuscan race cars) and a respected indi and they've both said it's more than likely this !
From what i can gather it's a fairly tricky job to do as there is a picular seal type system going on in there that uses (what can best be described as) a large ceramic washer that only seals fully once it's up to pressure but it's a bit of a fine art to actually get it right. Apologies if i'm stating the obvious to you here but, you are aware that the engine has to come out and the timing has to be lost on the engine to do this?
I had my oil / water pump refurbed as part of the engine work I had done recently. It may have been a contributor to oil in the water. The cause though is thought to have been a less than smooth surface on the heads. The heads and block need to be as smooth as glass on AJPs or you will risk contamination. So I wouldnt assume it is one problem - I would identify all the things that it might be (gaskets, O rings, pump, head surfaces etc) and ensure the builder checks all of this. From what i can gather it's a fairly tricky job to do as there is a picular seal type system going on in there that uses (what can best be described as) a large ceramic washer that only seals fully once it's up to pressure but it's a bit of a fine art to actually get it right. Apologies if i'm stating the obvious to you here but, you are aware that the engine has to come out and the timing has to be lost on the engine to do this?
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