Discussion
hi, thinking of buying an e36 m3, not sure weather to buy the normal 3.0l or 3.2l.ive heard so many horror stories re the 3.2l with vanos problems!!!! please explain what exactly happens when they or one of the vanos units pack up. also, are there any other things to look for... (common faults etc) thanks alot.
I've had a 98 evo for 4 years now with no vanos problems and covered nearly 30k miles. I did however invest in some preventative maintenance earlier this year and got all the vanos bolts and seals replaced as problems often occur from these parts failing. They are only cheap to replace so worth getting it done in my opinion.
This link is worth reading and explains it a bit more for you:
http://mukerji.co.uk/2005/06/17/bmw-s50-b32-vanos/
This link is worth reading and explains it a bit more for you:
http://mukerji.co.uk/2005/06/17/bmw-s50-b32-vanos/
Edited by htid on Friday 25th June 10:53
gav dunn said:
hi, thinking of buying an e36 m3, not sure weather to buy the normal 3.0l or 3.2l.ive heard so many horror stories re the 3.2l with vanos problems!!!! please explain what exactly happens when they or one of the vanos units pack up. also, are there any other things to look for... (common faults etc) thanks alot.
I've had my Evo now since mid 2004 and apart from SMG issues which are well documented in these pages, i've had no mechanical issues at all and managed to cover over 60k in that time. I have replaced the VANOS units but, that was more of a preventative measure rather than because of a breakdown. The car had covered over 100k on it's original VANOS units so i thought it was about time they were replaced. So in essence the VANOS stories are a bit over hyped if i'm honest. The easiest way to check these is go for a test drive and find a nice duel carriageway. Hold the car in say, 4th, and floor it. You will notice two step up's in power. One will be low down around 2.5k and the other will be higher up around 4.5 - 5k on the rev band. As with any used car, have a good poke around it, then once you've done that have another good poke around it. It wouldn't be uncommon for one of these to have found it's self on the wrong side of a hedge at some point or another. So check for the engine pan underneath and check that the inner lip of the front wings is nice and straight. If not this could be a sign of a ding up the front or particularly hard driving. Because of the nature of the car, the bushes underneath can take a hammering and it's fairly common for rear top mount bushes to be shot as well as trailing arm bushes - listen (and feel) for clunks from the rear under acceleration.
As has been mentioned, rust can be a problem now. Rear arches are rolled to accommodate the larger rear tyers so get your fingers up under the lip there for a poke around. I don't know if this is a common place but mine has a small rust bubble coming up now on the bonnet between the two skins near the window (about where the bonnet hinge is) so check there. There have been stories about the 6 speed Evo `box being a little notchy - mine isn't but will be a good point to take notice of.
Above all else though, one has to remember that these cars are now affordable to a lot of people, a lot of people that probably don't quite realize or understand the nature of the car and therefore not looking after or spending on it what they should. I'd be looking for a LARGE history file full of info and receipts for anything carried out on the car. Have a look at my profile and check the blog on the M3 to see what i mean.
I'm sure there is loads of other stuff but at the minute it escapes me. Fell free to as any questions you like as it may jog my very limited memory !
M3J.
thankyou everyone for your advice. ive found an m3, 80,000miles, 3 owners with full service history, clean car. £3,750!! is that what to expect price wise? also found an m3 cab, immaculate condition, 2owners, with only 47,000miles, asking price is £5,500, am i better of buying the more expensive 1?? thanks again.
tuscan_al said:
M3John said:
I'm sure there is loads of other stuff but at the minute it escapes me. Fell free to as any questions you like as it may jog my very limited memory !
M3J.
Hi John, will be using your detailed knowledge I suspect with my pending E36 M3 purchase coming up M3J.
gav dunn said:
thankyou everyone for your advice. ive found an m3, 80,000miles, 3 owners with full service history, clean car. £3,750!! is that what to expect price wise? also found an m3 cab, immaculate condition, 2owners, with only 47,000miles, asking price is £5,500, am i better of buying the more expensive 1?? thanks again.
Hummmmm 
to me (under the influence of many many pints) these sound a bit on the cheep side if i'm honest given their current owner numbers and milage.Prices seem a bit low for those, the trip computer (check control) when pressed should say 'Check control ok'.... Someone may correct me but mines only ever alerted me when something minor is wrong like ''washer fluid low'' or ''check brake light'' a bulbs gone out, that sort of thing
Edited by htid on Monday 28th June 14:59
Edited by htid on Monday 28th June 15:00
M3John said:
gav dunn said:
thankyou everyone for your advice. ive found an m3, 80,000miles, 3 owners with full service history, clean car. £3,750!! is that what to expect price wise? also found an m3 cab, immaculate condition, 2owners, with only 47,000miles, asking price is £5,500, am i better of buying the more expensive 1?? thanks again.
Hummmmm to me (under the influence of many many pints) these sound a bit on the cheep side if i'm honest given their current owner numbers and milage.remember that if these cars have not had suspension and shocks replaced these will need doing soon. thats the best park of a grand. also the bushes will need to be replaced as these will be shot after 85K. the parts for these are cheap enough, just the jobs quite labour intensive.
Remember that a pair of front floating discs cost getting on for £220 and the rear floaters are about £180. Pads all round is approx another 80-100. Tyres arent cheap either so budget this as well, your looking at 4-500 just for a set of toyo's t1r.
Not menat to put you off but it was what i was told by a guy who already owned an m3, i took the plunge and have loved it but he was right - they might be cheap to buy, but to run they are not.
That said buy a good un and she will look after you
Remember that a pair of front floating discs cost getting on for £220 and the rear floaters are about £180. Pads all round is approx another 80-100. Tyres arent cheap either so budget this as well, your looking at 4-500 just for a set of toyo's t1r.
Not menat to put you off but it was what i was told by a guy who already owned an m3, i took the plunge and have loved it but he was right - they might be cheap to buy, but to run they are not.
That said buy a good un and she will look after you
Some very useful stuff on this thread (for owners and prospective owners alike). I've had my Evo for a couple of years (it's now on 112k) and I've been really pleased with it.
My reading on the Vanos issue is that it is overblown, and that noisy Vanos doesn't equal a system that's about to fail, or not working. Replacing bolts and Vanos filter regularly is a must. Solenoids within the VANOS can be replaced individually if they fail, too. And Dr Vanos (USA) and the recently established Mr Vanos (UK) can provide reconditioned units and uprated seals for existing units, at reasonable prices (although it's not a cheap job, so a Vanos diagnostic pre-purchase is a good idea).
As to ownership costs, I agree with 318is boy - I have had discs and pads all round, refresh of rear trailing arm bushes and other suspension bits, so it hasn't been cheap to run. The single most expensive job I've done on mine was to have a new pusher fan and aircon condensor fitted. The condensor is a known weak point on these cars, with them often being sold as "needing a regas" - which may or may not be true. Worth getting underneath and checking for leaks if you can, and making sure the front pusher fan comes on when the aircon is operated.
Also, have a look over on the www.e36coupe.com forum - lots of information on there.
Let us know how you get on
PS - As a detail point, on the Evo the front discs are floating and vented, the rears are just vented
My reading on the Vanos issue is that it is overblown, and that noisy Vanos doesn't equal a system that's about to fail, or not working. Replacing bolts and Vanos filter regularly is a must. Solenoids within the VANOS can be replaced individually if they fail, too. And Dr Vanos (USA) and the recently established Mr Vanos (UK) can provide reconditioned units and uprated seals for existing units, at reasonable prices (although it's not a cheap job, so a Vanos diagnostic pre-purchase is a good idea).
As to ownership costs, I agree with 318is boy - I have had discs and pads all round, refresh of rear trailing arm bushes and other suspension bits, so it hasn't been cheap to run. The single most expensive job I've done on mine was to have a new pusher fan and aircon condensor fitted. The condensor is a known weak point on these cars, with them often being sold as "needing a regas" - which may or may not be true. Worth getting underneath and checking for leaks if you can, and making sure the front pusher fan comes on when the aircon is operated.
Also, have a look over on the www.e36coupe.com forum - lots of information on there.
Let us know how you get on
PS - As a detail point, on the Evo the front discs are floating and vented, the rears are just vented
Edited by _Neal_ on Monday 28th June 16:53
_Neal_ said:
My reading on the Vanos issue is that it is overblown, and that noisy Vanos doesn't equal a system that's about to fail, or not working. Replacing bolts and Vanos filter regularly is a must. Solenoids within the VANOS can be replaced individually if they fail, too. And Dr Vanos (USA) and the recently established Mr Vanos (UK) can provide reconditioned units and uprated seals for existing units, at reasonable prices (although it's not a cheap job, so a Vanos diagnostic pre-purchase is a good idea).
Edited by _Neal_ on Monday 28th June 16:53
I have no personal interest, just a happy customer.
Takes an hour or 2 to change all the seals and bolts etc, not too difficult, you just have to be careful over handling the Soleniods.
Apart from that, go for it, i'm on my 3rd E36 M3 either i'm showing a massive lack of immagination or they are quite probably the best value performance package around the £5K bracket.
_Neal_ said:
The single most expensive job I've done on mine was to have a new pusher fan and aircon condensor fitted. The condensor is a known weak point on these cars, with them often being sold as "needing a regas" - which may or may not be true. Worth getting underneath and checking for leaks if you can, and making sure the front pusher fan comes on when the aircon is operated.
Very true, I had to replace the condenser on mine, think it was £300-400 odd, so beware the ''air con just needs a re-gas'', probably needs a new condensor.Edited by _Neal_ on Monday 28th June 16:53
Oh and another thumbs up for Iridium Engineering from me, another happy customer
Edited by htid on Tuesday 29th June 12:39
318is boy said:
remember that if these cars have not had suspension and shocks replaced these will need doing soon. thats the best park of a grand. also the bushes will need to be replaced as these will be shot after 85K. the parts for these are cheap enough, just the jobs quite labour intensive.
Remember that a pair of front floating discs cost getting on for £220 and the rear floaters are about £180. Pads all round is approx another 80-100. Tyres arent cheap either so budget this as well, your looking at 4-500 just for a set of toyo's t1r.
Not menat to put you off but it was what i was told by a guy who already owned an m3, i took the plunge and have loved it but he was right - they might be cheap to buy, but to run they are not.
That said buy a good un and she will look after you
very true, I made sure the one I bought had the suspension changed the guy had also changed all the springs and bushes as well! It also had all new discs and pads and tyres.Remember that a pair of front floating discs cost getting on for £220 and the rear floaters are about £180. Pads all round is approx another 80-100. Tyres arent cheap either so budget this as well, your looking at 4-500 just for a set of toyo's t1r.
Not menat to put you off but it was what i was told by a guy who already owned an m3, i took the plunge and have loved it but he was right - they might be cheap to buy, but to run they are not.
That said buy a good un and she will look after you
it had also had a new steering rack fitted and the valve clearances done
brakes on the 3ltr car are not that expensive as I believe they are off a 5 or 7 series
I did have a seized rear caliper in the snow this year which was a bit of a bugger as it ruined a disc which meant all new pads and discs at the rear, apparently a common fault
this is partly why I went for the 3ltr as the bits are cheaper, I also bought a car with no air con for reasons already explained, have a sunroof though which I prefer anyway
love the car, for the money they are great, not perfect...
htid said:
_Neal_ said:
The single most expensive job I've done on mine was to have a new pusher fan and aircon condensor fitted. The condensor is a known weak point on these cars, with them often being sold as "needing a regas" - which may or may not be true. Worth getting underneath and checking for leaks if you can, and making sure the front pusher fan comes on when the aircon is operated.
Very true, I had to replace the condenser on mine, think it was £300-400 odd, so beware the ''air con just needs a re-gas'', probably needs a new condensor.Edited by _Neal_ on Monday 28th June 16:53
Oh and another thumbs up for Iridium Engineering from me, another happy customer
Edited by htid on Tuesday 29th June 12:39
lots of myths around evo vanos.
'failures' occur as a result of bolts shearing, solenoids failing etc. these tend to be specific rather than providing a requirement to replace the whole unit (assuming you are dealing with an independent who knows their stuff).
if you want, you can even get your vanos rebuilt for something like £400 by mr vanos or sean at iridium.
per above, have a read on e36coupe.com - mr vanos is a site sponsor and responds quickly to pm's, or google for iridium engineering, or even neil mukerji's blog piece on vanos bolts.
agram another happy customer of seans - if you are in the southern half of the country - he's worth the drive in my opinion (i go there from London).
he has an e36 m3 himself so knows exactly what goes wrong with these cars and immediately dealt with issues that my previous highly renowned indie could not.
'failures' occur as a result of bolts shearing, solenoids failing etc. these tend to be specific rather than providing a requirement to replace the whole unit (assuming you are dealing with an independent who knows their stuff).
if you want, you can even get your vanos rebuilt for something like £400 by mr vanos or sean at iridium.
per above, have a read on e36coupe.com - mr vanos is a site sponsor and responds quickly to pm's, or google for iridium engineering, or even neil mukerji's blog piece on vanos bolts.
agram another happy customer of seans - if you are in the southern half of the country - he's worth the drive in my opinion (i go there from London).
he has an e36 m3 himself so knows exactly what goes wrong with these cars and immediately dealt with issues that my previous highly renowned indie could not.
loved my old e36 evo, 10 track days and 20k and it loved it....
rust i would think will be the biggest problem but anything with less than 100k on a car - may have been played with. If you look at e46's the majority now are over 50k.
take mileage below 100k with a pinch of salt..they are well built and can hide mileage. Heres a little vid of it in action..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ukf38nKgMNQ
rust i would think will be the biggest problem but anything with less than 100k on a car - may have been played with. If you look at e46's the majority now are over 50k.
take mileage below 100k with a pinch of salt..they are well built and can hide mileage. Heres a little vid of it in action..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ukf38nKgMNQ
Gassing Station | M Power | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff