Discussion
Following on from the changing lanes thread I'm finding more and more in recent years that indicators have changed their purpose. My understanding was that indicators are to be used after you have calculated whatever maneuver you're about to do and are to make anyone in sight of your car aware that you are about to perform that maneuver.
So, why is it that many people use them as a tool to let people know what they *want* to do? I mean, the changing lanes thing is a classic. If I'm in the overtaking lane of a dual carriageway about to pass someone following a slower vehicle in lane 1 and they want to move around that slower vehicle why don't they look in their mirrors, realise I'll be past in 3 seconds, *then* indicate and overtake? It seems to be fashionable just to bang your indicators on because you want to overtake.
The problem is this; If I'm approaching an overtake in lane 2 and the car following in lane 1 sticks their indicator on I then have to assume they haven't seen me and act defensively, meaning they are going to have to wait even longer for me to get past.
It's the same with parked cars too. Driving along any street that has cars parked on either side and you'll be guaranteed to see some moron sat there with their indicator on. A number of times I've been driving down such streets and you'll see an indicator come on as you're about to go past making you take defensive action. Do these people think I'm going to slam on and hold a moving lane of traffic simply to let them pull out?
So, why is it that many people use them as a tool to let people know what they *want* to do? I mean, the changing lanes thing is a classic. If I'm in the overtaking lane of a dual carriageway about to pass someone following a slower vehicle in lane 1 and they want to move around that slower vehicle why don't they look in their mirrors, realise I'll be past in 3 seconds, *then* indicate and overtake? It seems to be fashionable just to bang your indicators on because you want to overtake.
The problem is this; If I'm approaching an overtake in lane 2 and the car following in lane 1 sticks their indicator on I then have to assume they haven't seen me and act defensively, meaning they are going to have to wait even longer for me to get past.
It's the same with parked cars too. Driving along any street that has cars parked on either side and you'll be guaranteed to see some moron sat there with their indicator on. A number of times I've been driving down such streets and you'll see an indicator come on as you're about to go past making you take defensive action. Do these people think I'm going to slam on and hold a moving lane of traffic simply to let them pull out?
BrewsterBear said:
It's the same with parked cars too. Driving along any street that has cars parked on either side and you'll be guaranteed to see some moron sat there with their indicator on. A number of times I've been driving down such streets and you'll see an indicator come on as you're about to go past making you take defensive action. Do these people think I'm going to slam on and hold a moving lane of traffic simply to let them pull out?
Agree with your comments mostly and had the very same situation today when overtaking on a dual carriageway, the guy on the inside lane was travelling a lot slower than me but I saw him catching a slow moped, when he got near (and as I was about to go past him) he put on his indicator and just pulled in front of me. If I hadn't been more alert and hadn't eased of the throttle a bit there would have been some serious emergency breaking! I'm sure if he had hit me he would have said "well I did indicate!" Just because you're indicating it doesn't mean it's safe to make the move.There are quite a few times where you need to put your indicators on to show you want to pull out of a parking space or around parked cars. Unless you indicate and start edging out on busier roads you'd sit there all day waiting for a gap!
BrewsterBear said:
why is it that many people use them as a tool to let people know what they *want* to do? I mean, the changing lanes thing is a classic. If I'm in the overtaking lane of a dual carriageway about to pass someone following a slower vehicle in lane 1 and they want to move around that slower vehicle why don't they look in their mirrors, realise I'll be past in 3 seconds, *then* indicate and overtake? It seems to be fashionable just to bang your indicators on because you want to overtake.
The problem is this; If I'm approaching an overtake in lane 2 and the car following in lane 1 sticks their indicator on I then have to assume they haven't seen me and act defensively, meaning they are going to have to wait even longer for me to get past.
Sounds like you need a reality check. When you're steaming up the outside lane you don't own that lane to the exclusion of other road users. If you drive like that all you do is encourage the "lane hogs" who clutter up the outside lane of motorways in the belief that once they move to the left they'll never get let out again....The problem is this; If I'm approaching an overtake in lane 2 and the car following in lane 1 sticks their indicator on I then have to assume they haven't seen me and act defensively, meaning they are going to have to wait even longer for me to get past.
Ozzie Osmond said:
BrewsterBear said:
why is it that many people use them as a tool to let people know what they *want* to do? I mean, the changing lanes thing is a classic. If I'm in the overtaking lane of a dual carriageway about to pass someone following a slower vehicle in lane 1 and they want to move around that slower vehicle why don't they look in their mirrors, realise I'll be past in 3 seconds, *then* indicate and overtake? It seems to be fashionable just to bang your indicators on because you want to overtake.
The problem is this; If I'm approaching an overtake in lane 2 and the car following in lane 1 sticks their indicator on I then have to assume they haven't seen me and act defensively, meaning they are going to have to wait even longer for me to get past.
Sounds like you need a reality check. When you're steaming up the outside lane you don't own that lane to the exclusion of other road users. If you drive like that all you do is encourage the "lane hogs" who clutter up the outside lane of motorways in the belief that once they move to the left they'll never get let out again....The problem is this; If I'm approaching an overtake in lane 2 and the car following in lane 1 sticks their indicator on I then have to assume they haven't seen me and act defensively, meaning they are going to have to wait even longer for me to get past.
Indicators ARE there to tell other road users what you want to do. If you're in lane 2 and a car in lane 1 wants to overtake they will put their indicator on in the hope you will move to lane 3 to allow them out. I do this for people all the time and when I am in lane 1 wanting to get into lane 2 and lane 3 is clear for a car in lane 2 I expect them to move over.
Also if their indicator goes on before you've passed them I suspect they are planning to move out after you but are giving the car behind you plenty of time to see the indicator.
Ugh, I hate the state of the motorways these days. Everyone treats it like a battleground when really we are all trying to go the same direction and a little consierate driving and thinking ahead is all it takes to make it better.
Agree with what you are saying in regards to people indicating on Dual Carriageways and/or Motorways however I disagree with your parking remarks. I will put my indicators on when trying to pull out of a parking space onto a busy road simply to make people aware of my whereabouts. Also someone might want the space that I am trying to pull out of, so if they see that I am trying to exit the space they will stop and allow me to pull out.
Simples eh.
Simples eh.
Oxygen2k10 said:
Agree with what you are saying in regards to people indicating on Dual Carriageways and/or Motorways however I disagree with your parking remarks. I will put my indicators on when trying to pull out of a parking space onto a busy road simply to make people aware of my whereabouts. Also someone might want the space that I am trying to pull out of, so if they see that I am trying to exit the space they will stop and allow me to pull out.
Simples eh.
+1 It just helps people to know what you are doing.Simples eh.
I think that in todays rules you've just got to to glad they're actually indicating in the first place! 
Also, that waiting for a gap then indicating your movement borders very slightly on the fashion of indicating at the exact same time as you're pulling off the motorway that seems to so popular these days.
I prefer to indicate early enough to let others know what my intentions are so they can react accordingly, but not so early that you might think I've forgot what I'm doing.
Also, that waiting for a gap then indicating your movement borders very slightly on the fashion of indicating at the exact same time as you're pulling off the motorway that seems to so popular these days.
I prefer to indicate early enough to let others know what my intentions are so they can react accordingly, but not so early that you might think I've forgot what I'm doing.
Sorry, but in the situations I mentioned indicators ARE NOT there to tell people what you want to do. Saying that you'll get stuck, etc if you don't indicate in the hope that someone lets you out means you obviously can't drive.
They are there to inform other road users what you are about to do, and sticking them on to try to coerce someone else into breaking the Highway Code is not acceptable. Wait for that gap to overtake or pull away from the roadside, indicate and do it.
They are there to inform other road users what you are about to do, and sticking them on to try to coerce someone else into breaking the Highway Code is not acceptable. Wait for that gap to overtake or pull away from the roadside, indicate and do it.
BrewsterBear said:
Saying that you'll get stuck, etc if you don't indicate in the hope that someone lets you out means you obviously can't drive.
How on earth did you come to that conclusion.I think indicating to show you want to move out is the right thing to do on some occassions.
1) If you were on a 3-lane motorway then they are politely asking you to move to lane 3 so they can overtake the car in front.
2) If there is a queue of traffic in the outside lane they are politely asking if you could make a gap for them. The alternative of course is for them to barge in.
Of course if there were no cars behind you, it would have made sense for them to wait until you were past before indicating.
k off I do this, if i'm travelling along a motorway and, start to catch another vehicle travelling slower, I then look for a gap behind me and switch my indicator on and take the gap when it appears. I'm not asking you to let me do this, i'm telling you what i'm going to do in advance, which is what indicators are for, the clue is in the name, indicators, to indicate what i'm going to do next. Unfortunately people use them to mark what they have already done or are actually in the proces of doing, like switching them on as they change direction.
I was taught that you can put your indicator on to tell people of your intent when you need their help to complete the manoeuvre. For example:
Trying to get back into the traffic from being parked, it’s a constant stream of traffic with no gap to pull in to. Wait a few seconds to see if a gap is likely, but if not then indicator on, be ready, and hope someone takes pity on you by slowing and creating a gap.
Coming up to a junction with different lanes for different directions; heavy traffic so indicator on while still approaching and wait for someone to let you change lanes. Not leave it until you are at the junction, in the wrong lane and holding everyone up just because there was no gap.
Equally, on a dual-carriageway or motor way if I’m coming up on a car but not too close, and it indicates it wants to be in my lane too. If it’s solid traffic behind then slow and let them out. They’ve as much right to be in the same lane as me as I do to be there, so no point powering on with an “I was here first” attitude.
Trying to get back into the traffic from being parked, it’s a constant stream of traffic with no gap to pull in to. Wait a few seconds to see if a gap is likely, but if not then indicator on, be ready, and hope someone takes pity on you by slowing and creating a gap.
Coming up to a junction with different lanes for different directions; heavy traffic so indicator on while still approaching and wait for someone to let you change lanes. Not leave it until you are at the junction, in the wrong lane and holding everyone up just because there was no gap.
Equally, on a dual-carriageway or motor way if I’m coming up on a car but not too close, and it indicates it wants to be in my lane too. If it’s solid traffic behind then slow and let them out. They’ve as much right to be in the same lane as me as I do to be there, so no point powering on with an “I was here first” attitude.
BrewsterBear said:
reggie82 said:
I think indicating to show you want to move out is the right thing to do on some occassions.
Well, then you're wrong. Turning on your indicator is a statement of intent of performing that maneuver, not a means of asking someone to allow you to do it.ETA: What about leaving your indicator on while you wait for a gap in traffic when turning right into a side street? You turn yours off until you are about to move incase the other person thinks you will drive into them? I doubt it.
Edited by MSTRBKR on Friday 25th June 13:22
BrewsterBear said:
reggie82 said:
I think indicating to show you want to move out is the right thing to do on some occassions.
Well, then you're wrong. Turning on your indicator is a statement of intent of performing that maneuver, not a means of asking someone to allow you to do it.A signal "means" what the people seeing it take it to mean - whatever it says in the rule book.
See also, headlight flashing.
BrewsterBear said:
Sorry, but in the situations I mentioned indicators ARE NOT there to tell people what you want to do. Saying that you'll get stuck, etc if you don't indicate in the hope that someone lets you out means you obviously can't drive.
So you're parked in Central London at rush hour and there's a constant stream of traffic creeping past you.How do approaching cars know you want to pull out, do you just sit there until rush hour has past and then pull out? Before you say it's because the nose of your car is pointed towards the lane and your wheels are pointing in the direction you want to go, have you seen how some people park!
You need to "indicate" your intention then you are making all the cars (and bikes)around you aware what you want to/are about to do, it's called safe and curteous driving.
The Highway Code - 103 said:
Signals (103-112)103
Signals warn and inform other road users, including pedestrians (see 'Signals to other road users'), of your intended actions. You should always
- give clear signals in plenty of time, having checked it is not misleading to signal at that time
- use them to advise other road users before changing course or direction, stopping or moving off
- cancel them after use
-make sure your signals will not confuse others. If, for instance, you want to stop after a side road, do not signal until you are passing the road. If you signal earlier it may give the impression that you intend to turn into the road. Your brake lights will warn traffic behind you that you are slowing down
use an arm signal to emphasise or reinforce your signal if necessary. Remember that signalling does not give you priority
At no point within that does it say put your indicators on if you want to do something but can't because of traffic. What it does say is;Signals warn and inform other road users, including pedestrians (see 'Signals to other road users'), of your intended actions. You should always
- give clear signals in plenty of time, having checked it is not misleading to signal at that time
- use them to advise other road users before changing course or direction, stopping or moving off
- cancel them after use
-make sure your signals will not confuse others. If, for instance, you want to stop after a side road, do not signal until you are passing the road. If you signal earlier it may give the impression that you intend to turn into the road. Your brake lights will warn traffic behind you that you are slowing down
use an arm signal to emphasise or reinforce your signal if necessary. Remember that signalling does not give you priority
You should always give clear signals in plenty of time, having checked it is not misleading to signal at that time
Turning on your indicator because you want to pull out when there is not the space to pull out *is* misleading.
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