A Boy with a Very Improved New Toy....
Discussion
Mike / Paul (Austec Racing) - Thanx Guys for hosting a truely memorable day ! Very impressed - TVR Heaven ! Cant wait for a service. See you soon I hope...
Tim Lamont (ACT) - Twin Plenum - Yet another beautifully crafted addition to my engine bay ! Form very much meets function... Can I have one for me mantle-piece ??!
Mark Adams - Sir... Not sure how u feel about being compared to Yoda but u are indeed the Jedi Master.. Always a pleasure !
Griff 500 SE - 285BHP, 310lbs/ft... with all the airs, graces & manners of a high society escort :-))
Tim Lamont (ACT) - Twin Plenum - Yet another beautifully crafted addition to my engine bay ! Form very much meets function... Can I have one for me mantle-piece ??!
Mark Adams - Sir... Not sure how u feel about being compared to Yoda but u are indeed the Jedi Master.. Always a pleasure !
Griff 500 SE - 285BHP, 310lbs/ft... with all the airs, graces & manners of a high society escort :-))
Thanks Tiny !
Ok here goes... Saw Mark last September at Power Engineering - just the chip back then but got a respectable 260BPH. She felt much fattened up & bestowed with renewed purpose...
On Wed had the ACT Twin Plenum, Bosch air meter, new fuel injectors & more of Marks Magic on Austecs' rolling road...
The most noticeable improvement is in the throttle response. Its f**king awesome & she feels soo elastic - revving up & down like a Speed Six ! As someone else said on here - 'feels like the chains have been cut from the engine !' :-)
Ok here goes... Saw Mark last September at Power Engineering - just the chip back then but got a respectable 260BPH. She felt much fattened up & bestowed with renewed purpose...
On Wed had the ACT Twin Plenum, Bosch air meter, new fuel injectors & more of Marks Magic on Austecs' rolling road...
The most noticeable improvement is in the throttle response. Its f**king awesome & she feels soo elastic - revving up & down like a Speed Six ! As someone else said on here - 'feels like the chains have been cut from the engine !' :-)
Matzo,
Thanks the info.
Starmist and I were at Mech's rolling road on Wednesday to do our 'before mods' runs.
Starmist is going for the TVR Power 'Takara' upgrade as his Griff is a high miler and he will benefit from the engine rebuild element of this route.
Mine is a younger car and I'm going,through Peninsula, the 404cam/ACT/BoshAFM/MAchip/ceramic exhaust route.
My standard 2000 X reg 5lt produced 235BHP and 260 ft/lb torque on the 'before' run and I hope to get similar figs to yours after my upgrade work
Thanks the info.
Starmist and I were at Mech's rolling road on Wednesday to do our 'before mods' runs.
Starmist is going for the TVR Power 'Takara' upgrade as his Griff is a high miler and he will benefit from the engine rebuild element of this route.
Mine is a younger car and I'm going,through Peninsula, the 404cam/ACT/BoshAFM/MAchip/ceramic exhaust route.
My standard 2000 X reg 5lt produced 235BHP and 260 ft/lb torque on the 'before' run and I hope to get similar figs to yours after my upgrade work
tiny said:
....
....My standard 2000 X reg 5lt produced 235BHP and 260 ft/lb torque on the 'before' run and I hope to get similar figs to yours after my upgrade work
Was that with Mark at Mech repairs
. I know the figures from there read very low as a rule, but not sure by how much, as 235/260 is 
low for a 500, even when you factor in the factory fudges 
. Harry
They did seem low (but mine was lower - due to a fueling fault which I knew about before hand. I had to get it on the dyno then, as it went in yesterday for the Taraka upgrade.
According to Brian(?) the Lucas injectors can be pretty ropey, in as much as the flow rates out of the box vary enormously and you often have to try a large number of injectors to get 8 that are similar. It is definitely running out of puff at around 3200rpm.
The actual figures are largely academic as you could put the same car on 10 different dynos and get 10 difference readings. Many tuning shops deliberately set theirs high to flatter customers - such as on the Rev Max Torque Show (not that I watch such c
p, you understand!
Unless you put it back on the same dyno before and afterwards your comparison figures are pretty much irrelevant. Even then, atmospheric conditions will have an effect if not adjusted for.
Moving on to Tiny & I, this is all getting too much of a competition. Both Tiny and I want to know how much of a difference there is going to be between the two upgrades we are having - for our benefits, not anyone else's -. Tiny's is likely to be a fair comparison, as his engine is healthy to start with, and there are unlikely to be any influencing factors other than the mods he is having.
The route I am taking is 75% engine recondition and 25% upgrade. I would not normally be expecting to see the sorts of gains Tiny should see, but, because mine is ill, and it will have now rings and a hone, plus new shells, the crank and rods rebalanced and the valves rebalanced and the old cam is undoubtedly worn after 82000 miles, I will probably see a bigger diference.
According to Brian(?) the Lucas injectors can be pretty ropey, in as much as the flow rates out of the box vary enormously and you often have to try a large number of injectors to get 8 that are similar. It is definitely running out of puff at around 3200rpm.
The actual figures are largely academic as you could put the same car on 10 different dynos and get 10 difference readings. Many tuning shops deliberately set theirs high to flatter customers - such as on the Rev Max Torque Show (not that I watch such c
p, you understand! Unless you put it back on the same dyno before and afterwards your comparison figures are pretty much irrelevant. Even then, atmospheric conditions will have an effect if not adjusted for.
Moving on to Tiny & I, this is all getting too much of a competition. Both Tiny and I want to know how much of a difference there is going to be between the two upgrades we are having - for our benefits, not anyone else's -. Tiny's is likely to be a fair comparison, as his engine is healthy to start with, and there are unlikely to be any influencing factors other than the mods he is having.
The route I am taking is 75% engine recondition and 25% upgrade. I would not normally be expecting to see the sorts of gains Tiny should see, but, because mine is ill, and it will have now rings and a hone, plus new shells, the crank and rods rebalanced and the valves rebalanced and the old cam is undoubtedly worn after 82000 miles, I will probably see a bigger diference.
Matzo...
well done, very respectable figures!
285 good...310lb/ft EXCELLENT!! that'll be very quick! mine puts out 280/280 and its quick! which comes from the 280lb/ft from 2750-5500 and 250bhp ATW
as far as the R/road at mech repairs goes, had mine checked on a "known accurate" road. (known as in, had several Beemers / skylines on that do their figures) and found that the torque was 'bout right and the Bhp 'bout 30 down.
i got 280/250 off mech repairs.
so, takara or aftermarket (tim, mark etc). well as we all know the latter works! Many happy customers! and the takara route sounds ideal for starmist as his engine will benefit most from the mechanical work in the TVR package.
I imagine that starmist will feel the most benefit as he currently has issues that will be addressed with the mods. this does mean that we wont get a good before and after improvement from the takara as we are not starting with a solid car. (no dis-respect starmist). also with all the balancing, I reckon stamist will have the advantage long term. if he can rev higher he can get more power!
so further and further into the realms of deep pockets!
now you have to get on the track and enjoy it!
by theway tim, mine started with 250lbft/220bhp!!!
>> Edited by Guillotine on Saturday 13th March 08:02
well done, very respectable figures!
285 good...310lb/ft EXCELLENT!! that'll be very quick! mine puts out 280/280 and its quick! which comes from the 280lb/ft from 2750-5500 and 250bhp ATW
as far as the R/road at mech repairs goes, had mine checked on a "known accurate" road. (known as in, had several Beemers / skylines on that do their figures) and found that the torque was 'bout right and the Bhp 'bout 30 down.
i got 280/250 off mech repairs.
so, takara or aftermarket (tim, mark etc). well as we all know the latter works! Many happy customers! and the takara route sounds ideal for starmist as his engine will benefit most from the mechanical work in the TVR package.
I imagine that starmist will feel the most benefit as he currently has issues that will be addressed with the mods. this does mean that we wont get a good before and after improvement from the takara as we are not starting with a solid car. (no dis-respect starmist). also with all the balancing, I reckon stamist will have the advantage long term. if he can rev higher he can get more power!
so further and further into the realms of deep pockets!
now you have to get on the track and enjoy it!
by theway tim, mine started with 250lbft/220bhp!!!
>> Edited by Guillotine on Saturday 13th March 08:02
Assuming that the Taraka (n.b. it is TARAKA, with the emphasis on the first sylable, not TAKARA
) cam is more or less going to give the same sort of results as the 404 ( waits to be shot down in flames 
)the only major difference is the induction, where TVR Power open out the std plenum to around 71mm with a bellmouth and remove all the trumpets
, compared to the c/f twin throttle plenum and ali trumpets from ACT.
As for the chip, the Taraka is a reprogrammed std chip which takes no account of individual engine requirements (presumably like an off-the-shelf Tornado) but should be there or there abouts. Further, I assume it could be reprogrammed by the likes of Mark Adams afterwards, if required.
So for an equal comparison, you would need to start with two healthy standard engines, one then has the full Taraka, the other the 404/ACT/Tornado, but no Mark Adams tweak.
I suppose what I am saying is it's apples and pears, and anyone who tries to draw any conclusion from the results will immediately discredit themselves by the mere fact that they have tried to make a comparison between two so patently different mods!
The only shock would be if the Taraka plenum mods created loads more torque / bhp than an ACT set up, which I very VERY much doubt.
) cam is more or less going to give the same sort of results as the 404 ( waits to be shot down in flames )the only major difference is the induction, where TVR Power open out the std plenum to around 71mm with a bellmouth and remove all the trumpets, compared to the c/f twin throttle plenum and ali trumpets from ACT. As for the chip, the Taraka is a reprogrammed std chip which takes no account of individual engine requirements (presumably like an off-the-shelf Tornado) but should be there or there abouts. Further, I assume it could be reprogrammed by the likes of Mark Adams afterwards, if required.
So for an equal comparison, you would need to start with two healthy standard engines, one then has the full Taraka, the other the 404/ACT/Tornado, but no Mark Adams tweak.
I suppose what I am saying is it's apples and pears, and anyone who tries to draw any conclusion from the results will immediately discredit themselves by the mere fact that they have tried to make a comparison between two so patently different mods!
The only shock would be if the Taraka plenum mods created loads more torque / bhp than an ACT set up, which I very VERY much doubt.
Agree with everything said by Starmist and Guillotine.
The fact that you've got a number of different upgrade routes,all with their respective pros/cons,and a bunch of people who are enthusiatic and willing to share their wealth of experience on this forum is one of the major reasons that I got into Griff ownership!
My particular thanks go veteran moders such as Guillotine,Gerjo,SteveH,RichB,Apache,Grifftastic and ZZtop but also to the rest of you on here for helping make Griff ownership so enjoyable.
My views on the high quality work and support of Peninsula and TVRbodyshop are already well known and I am sure there are others like them around the country.
PS TimW - Mech thought that,in their experience,my numbers were pretty much what they'd expect for a later standard 500
The fact that you've got a number of different upgrade routes,all with their respective pros/cons,and a bunch of people who are enthusiatic and willing to share their wealth of experience on this forum is one of the major reasons that I got into Griff ownership!
My particular thanks go veteran moders such as Guillotine,Gerjo,SteveH,RichB,Apache,Grifftastic and ZZtop but also to the rest of you on here for helping make Griff ownership so enjoyable.
My views on the high quality work and support of Peninsula and TVRbodyshop are already well known and I am sure there are others like them around the country.
PS TimW - Mech thought that,in their experience,my numbers were pretty much what they'd expect for a later standard 500
tiny said:
...
PS TimW - Mech thought that,in their experience,my numbers were pretty much what they'd expect for a later standard 500
Tiny apologies, firstly I posted under my sons login, secondly I didn't make it clear about Mech Repairs RR figures. Yes I understand that these may well be 'standard' figures for their RR, the point I tried to make, albeit badly
, was how does Mech Repairs figures compare with more established RR's such as Power Engineering. I know from casual conversations that they are normally lower, but by how much I don't know. To give you some idea of where I'm coming from, Power Engineering figures can be within 10hp/lbs of V8D's engine dyno, so figures there are IMHO fairly accurate. Again Austec RR is within 5 of Powers in my experience, same week different days. Having used all three mentioned above I am fairly confident of my ouput
. Personally I went the V8D/ACT/MA route on my lowly 4ltr
and shall we just say if the figures posted earlier are standard figures then I have nothing to fear . However that said, I know of an 'apparent' standard 500chim that recently nearly made 360lb/ft
, I may have problems following that though . Best of luck with engine work, it never ends btw, awaiting the results of some 'ignition' work this time around myself
. Harry
Matzo said:Matzo, mate, please see my previous posting about this topic. I'm having an engine rebuild and a new cam, Tiny is having a new cam, chip, plenum, rr setup, catless primaries Bosch airflow meter, etc, etc, etc. If you really don't know what the outcome is going to be, where have you been?
Starmist & Tiny... Let me know when & where yr rolling road showdown will be taking place...
Would love to witness this epic battle !
Dynos are like watches. You llok at 10 difference ones and get 10 difference figures. You have no way of knowing which (if any) is telling the truth (there's no speaking dyno) so you just assume that the ones that are telling a broadly similar story are liekely to be telling the truth.
The only difference with dynos is that I guess there can be a tendancy for people to wind up the dynos to flatter the customer. I know I said you should really only se them as a comparitor (before and after) and not worry about the actual figures, but I do feel disappointed with the figures I got at Mech Repairs.
Mind up, it still feels quick, so once it;s well again and had some mild tweaking it should really fly
The only difference with dynos is that I guess there can be a tendancy for people to wind up the dynos to flatter the customer. I know I said you should really only se them as a comparitor (before and after) and not worry about the actual figures, but I do feel disappointed with the figures I got at Mech Repairs.
Mind up, it still feels quick, so once it;s well again and had some mild tweaking it should really fly
Harry,
I haven't used another rolling road so I can't really comment.We picked Mech because they -:
1) have a good reputation and are used extensively by Mark Adams whose chip/tune I ( and maybe later Starmist!) will use.
2) it was a convienient 1/2 way location for us to meet.
As Starmist said, our plan is to use the same road before and after our respective different mods in order that we can see the improvements gained on our respective cars - it's really not a competition for the highest figs!
If I had to guess the outcome I would say that I will probably in fact get the higher figs but that,given the current 'poorly' state of Starmist's engine, that he will see both the biggest incremental gains and the most noticable improvement in his Griff's real world perfomance.
When we've finished the project I may well put my car on another reputable RR just to see if the final figs differ by much.
I haven't used another rolling road so I can't really comment.We picked Mech because they -:
1) have a good reputation and are used extensively by Mark Adams whose chip/tune I ( and maybe later Starmist!) will use.
2) it was a convienient 1/2 way location for us to meet.
As Starmist said, our plan is to use the same road before and after our respective different mods in order that we can see the improvements gained on our respective cars - it's really not a competition for the highest figs!
If I had to guess the outcome I would say that I will probably in fact get the higher figs but that,given the current 'poorly' state of Starmist's engine, that he will see both the biggest incremental gains and the most noticable improvement in his Griff's real world perfomance.
When we've finished the project I may well put my car on another reputable RR just to see if the final figs differ by much.
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