Ebay Trade Sales

[Rollcage]

As this sort of thing is a favourite topic here on PH, I thought I would mention this.
I have seen a number of motor trade sellers advertising cars on Ebay as "Trade Sale" - no warranty implied or given, and you accept liability for any mechanical repairs the vehicle may need at any point in the future.


Wonder how many people fall for it?


An example is given here.

( I must point out this is a car and seller I have absolutely no personal knowledge of at all)

[AndrewW-G]

Bit naughty isnt it, unless they somehow verify that the buyer is a motor trader, IMHO they will still be bound by SOG

Had to chuckle when I read that the seller "kept" some of his cars at his local BCA

[Rollcage]

Not a bad gig is it. Flog on other dealers P/Xs at seemingly no risk for quick profits.

Hang on a minute.......

[AndrewW-G]

Rollcage said:

Not a bad gig is it. Flog on other dealers P/Xs at seemingly no risk for quick profits.

Hang on a minute.......

Want to borrow my BCA trade card

[Rollcage]

AndrewW-G said:

Rollcage said:

Not a bad gig is it. Flog on other dealers P/Xs at seemingly no risk for quick profits.

Hang on a minute.......

Want to borrow my BCA trade card

Thats very kind, but their indemnity fees are a little strong for me, even at the trade end of the scale. I get palpitations paying more than £50 indemnity on anything from auction!

[mcford]

That's an auction, not a classified advert. You don't get any rights under SOGA if you purchased from a car auction, why should an internet auction be any different?

[Rollcage]

mcford said:

That's an auction, not a classified advert. You don't get any rights under SOGA if you purchased from a car auction, why should an internet auction be any different?

It is exactly the same as buying from a dealer in the normal way. SOGA applies fully.

[230TE]

Rollcage said:

mcford said:

That's an auction, not a classified advert. You don't get any rights under SOGA if you purchased from a car auction, why should an internet auction be any different?

It is exactly the same as buying from a dealer in the normal way. SOGA applies fully.

My understanding is that it depends on the exact nature of the Ebay transaction. Buy It Now - usual consumer protection applies. 'Win' it with the highest bid - it's an auction and your only consumer protection is if the item is not as described in the listing.

However, I just Googled it and found half a dozen different and contradictory versions of the law on Internet auctions.

At this point I think common sense should kick in. So you buy a £500 snotter unseen on Ebay and it turns out to be not quite as good as a new car. If your reaction is to run around screaming about 'your rights' and trying to find someone to sue, my view is that you should be sterilised to prevent you passing on your defective intelligence and exaggerated sense of entitlement to the next generation. A cheap car is a cheap car. It will probably break down and fall apart. If you can't handle this risk, stick to buses.

N.B. None of the above is aimed at any specific previous poster on this thread. I use the word 'you' because 'one' sounds a bit poncy and Prince of Wales.

[POORCARDEALER]

Rollcage said:

mcford said:

That's an auction, not a classified advert. You don't get any rights under SOGA if you purchased from a car auction, why should an internet auction be any different?

It is exactly the same as buying from a dealer in the normal way. SOGA applies fully.

Yes that is correct, the world has gone mad.............there needs to be an ammendment to the law so cars sold in an auction enviroment are sold as seen, totally without warranty, SOGA is outdated and definatly needs reviewing.

[confused_buyer]

It is very much a grey area, no one really seems to know. On the one hand, SoGA would seem to apply but on the other hand the usual final sale price for cars on ebay auctions is normally trade or lower.

Remember that "rights" under SoGA depends on the price paid and if the vendor can point out you paid book trade your rights are diminished.

I've got shot of a few px's on ebay - they only ever get trade. If someone them moans because an electric window is sticking I simply offer them a full refund (complying completely with SoGA). They never take it because they know they would have a hell of a job finding the same car at anything like the price. I think most "trade sale" vendors on ebay operate in the same way: get a jobsworth customer and simply refund immediately and in full and relist.

As far as making money, you'll have a heck of a job buying at auction and selling on ebay auctions unless you really, really know what you are doing. The only one which does it big time is Sterling Cars and I noticed several of the cars they had on this week fetched £1000 less than I saw them pay at BCA last week....

[confused_buyer]

Rollcage said:

AndrewW-G said:

Rollcage said:

Not a bad gig is it. Flog on other dealers P/Xs at seemingly no risk for quick profits.

Hang on a minute.......

Want to borrow my BCA trade card

Thats very kind, but their indemnity fees are a little strong for me, even at the trade end of the scale. I get palpitations paying more than £50 indemnity on anything from auction!

The problem is they have about 60% of cars sold at auction in the UK in anyone week (and Manheim the other 35%). It is basically a duopoly but if you buy at auction they have all the best vendors so you have to use them and they know it.

[AndrewW-G]

confused_buyer said:

Remember that "rights" under SoGA depends on the price paid and if the vendor can point out you paid book trade your rights are diminished.

THAT IS NOT CORRECT, the price somebody has paid for a vehicle has nothing to do with their rights under SoG. To make a "trade" sale, the trader selling the car has to satisfy themselves that the person buying the car IS a trader, the usual method of verifying this is to have sight of the buyer’s trade insurance certificate.
As we all know ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law and if a trader were to sell a car to a member of the public as a “trade” sale, without verifying they are trade and there was an issue, the trader would get screwed by the courts

If anybody is unsure as to the legality of a deal, check with Citizens Advice Bureau / Solicitor / Trading Standards

[confused_buyer]

AndrewW-G said:

Remember that "rights" under SoGA depends on the price paid and if the vendor can point out you paid book trade your rights are diminished.

It is terminology. You always have rights, they stay constant, but the price and circumstances of the sale DO have bearing on what can be considered reasonably quality.

If you take two identical cars and one is bought for £9000 from a franchised dealer and the other for £6000 on an ebay auction the purchaser of the £9000 example clearly has more of a case to claim for defects than the £6000 one. If the engine blows up after 2 hours then no argument on either but a central locking motor would be different.

Anyway, if you buy a car for trade price from anywhere you'd have be a blithering idiot to think that you have got the same sort of coverage as one bought for full retail.

Edited by confused_buyer on Sunday 27th June 13:11

[BruceV8]

Hmmm interesting. I sell a few cars on ebay (I quite often buy the same cars there as well). I always accurately describe my cars, warts and all, but I also assumed that auction terms applied.

Is there any case law of a trader being prosecuted after selling a lemon on ebay?