eBay Shill Bidder Prosecuted
Discussion
GTIR said:
Surely if you know your max price and stick to it it wouldn't matter if someone was pushing the price up?
Wrong.1. An item is for sale, it's quite neiche so not many buyers.
2. You really want it and put a max bid of £200 into ebay.
3. Another half interested buyer wants it, but not as much as you. He bids £100.
4. You automatically outbid him with £101. This SHOULD be the price you end up buying at, however:
5. The seller registeres with a 2nd account (the shill) and bids at £105 (so you autobid £106), then £115 (you autobid £116) he keeps going until he bids £205 and you bid £200 as it's your max, but you're now losing.
6. 2 options now:
i) The seller withdraws the shill bids and places one JUST under your max, i.e. £199 so you win at £200, or
ii) The shill bidder doesn't pull the bids and wins the auction. The seller then comes on his real account and tells you "the 'winner' hasn't paid, so would you like 2nd dibs at your max price?"
So you end up paying about £200 for the item which you would otherwise have won for £101.
Whilst no one is forcing you to pay the £200, indeed you will only pay it if the item is worth that amount to you, it's a ripoff because you should have been able to buy it at the lower price.
If you (reader) were to argue that "It doesn't matter as you managed to buy it for at/under your max bid." then you are missing the point. The point is that it should have been possible to buy for much lower than the max bid, and the price has been increased by shill bidding, which is illegal.
mrmr96 said:
GTIR said:
Surely if you know your max price and stick to it it wouldn't matter if someone was pushing the price up?
Wrong.1. An item is for sale, it's quite neiche so not many buyers.
2. You really want it and put a max bid of £200 into ebay.
3. Another half interested buyer wants it, but not as much as you. He bids £100.
4. You automatically outbid him with £101. This SHOULD be the price you end up buying at, however:
5. The seller registeres with a 2nd account (the shill) and bids at £105 (so you autobid £106), then £115 (you autobid £116) he keeps going until he bids £205 and you bid £200 as it's your max, but you're now losing.
6. 2 options now:
i) The seller withdraws the shill bids and places one JUST under your max, i.e. £199 so you win at £200, or
ii) The shill bidder doesn't pull the bids and wins the auction. The seller then comes on his real account and tells you "the 'winner' hasn't paid, so would you like 2nd dibs at your max price?"
So you end up paying about £200 for the item which you would otherwise have won for £101.
Whilst no one is forcing you to pay the £200, indeed you will only pay it if the item is worth that amount to you, it's a ripoff because you should have been able to buy it at the lower price.
If you (reader) were to argue that "It doesn't matter as you managed to buy it for at/under your max bid." then you are missing the point. The point is that it should have been possible to buy for much lower than the max bid, and the price has been increased by shill bidding, which is illegal.
Once fell victim to this, only to realize it years later. Was an item for 1000€ that I end up paying 1600. Because he had "another one".
Some people aren't very subtle about it. I once was outbid on an item by one increment, and was then offered a second chance - within about two minutes of the auction ending. Oh, right, so you've had a whole conversation with the winner about him not wanting it anymore, settled that issue and then e-mailed me to see if I want it - all within two minutes!? Riiiight.....
If you had a second, or even a third, account on ebay, how would they know/find out? More classic unsubtlety from the shill bidder I guess?
If you had a second, or even a third, account on ebay, how would they know/find out? More classic unsubtlety from the shill bidder I guess?
mrmr96 said:
Wrong.
1. An item is for sale, it's quite neiche so not many buyers.
2. You really want it and put a max bid of £200 into ebay.
3. Another half interested buyer wants it, but not as much as you. He bids £100.
4. You automatically outbid him with £101. This SHOULD be the price you end up buying at, however:
5. The seller registeres with a 2nd account (the shill) and bids at £105 (so you autobid £106), then £115 (you autobid £116) he keeps going until he bids £205 and you bid £200 as it's your max, but you're now losing.
6. 2 options now:
i) The seller withdraws the shill bids and places one JUST under your max, i.e. £199 so you win at £200, or
ii) The shill bidder doesn't pull the bids and wins the auction. The seller then comes on his real account and tells you "the 'winner' hasn't paid, so would you like 2nd dibs at your max price?"
So you end up paying about £200 for the item which you would otherwise have won for £101.
Whilst no one is forcing you to pay the £200, indeed you will only pay it if the item is worth that amount to you, it's a ripoff because you should have been able to buy it at the lower price.
If you (reader) were to argue that "It doesn't matter as you managed to buy it for at/under your max bid." then you are missing the point. The point is that it should have been possible to buy for much lower than the max bid, and the price has been increased by shill bidding, which is illegal.
Exactly this.1. An item is for sale, it's quite neiche so not many buyers.
2. You really want it and put a max bid of £200 into ebay.
3. Another half interested buyer wants it, but not as much as you. He bids £100.
4. You automatically outbid him with £101. This SHOULD be the price you end up buying at, however:
5. The seller registeres with a 2nd account (the shill) and bids at £105 (so you autobid £106), then £115 (you autobid £116) he keeps going until he bids £205 and you bid £200 as it's your max, but you're now losing.
6. 2 options now:
i) The seller withdraws the shill bids and places one JUST under your max, i.e. £199 so you win at £200, or
ii) The shill bidder doesn't pull the bids and wins the auction. The seller then comes on his real account and tells you "the 'winner' hasn't paid, so would you like 2nd dibs at your max price?"
So you end up paying about £200 for the item which you would otherwise have won for £101.
Whilst no one is forcing you to pay the £200, indeed you will only pay it if the item is worth that amount to you, it's a ripoff because you should have been able to buy it at the lower price.
If you (reader) were to argue that "It doesn't matter as you managed to buy it for at/under your max bid." then you are missing the point. The point is that it should have been possible to buy for much lower than the max bid, and the price has been increased by shill bidding, which is illegal.
It happened to me. I bid a couple of hundred on a laser jammer (for the garage door officer
). In less than ten minutes, a user with zero feedback had bid it up to £205, then withdrew the bid. I was suspicious about the bidding, and checked it out. He had withdrawn his bid, and then bid £195 again.Smelling a rat, I withdrew my bid, and reported him for possible shill bidding.
Plotloss said:
People bid on their own lots at normal auctions, have done for years.
Can't see why the expectation when auctions moved online would be any different.
A mate of mine was bidding on his own car at Exeter auctions. He won it, and signaled to the auctioneer that it was his, and he would be putting it through again.Can't see why the expectation when auctions moved online would be any different.
The auctioneer shook his head, and pointed to an identical car waiting to come into the ring. His car
It put a smile on the faces of the local dealers.
As it turned out, he'd bought a little gem, except it needed a gearbox, which he happened to have lying around in his garage at home !
Some people are born lucky ?
philthy said:
Plotloss said:
People bid on their own lots at normal auctions, have done for years.
Can't see why the expectation when auctions moved online would be any different.
A mate of mine was bidding on his own car at Exeter auctions. He won it, and signaled to the auctioneer that it was his, and he would be putting it through again.Can't see why the expectation when auctions moved online would be any different.
The auctioneer shook his head, and pointed to an identical car waiting to come into the ring. His car
It put a smile on the faces of the local dealers.
As it turned out, he'd bought a little gem, except it needed a gearbox, which he happened to have lying around in his garage at home !
Some people are born lucky ?
What is this I don't even...
ZesPak said:
philthy said:
Plotloss said:
People bid on their own lots at normal auctions, have done for years.
Can't see why the expectation when auctions moved online would be any different.
A mate of mine was bidding on his own car at Exeter auctions. He won it, and signaled to the auctioneer that it was his, and he would be putting it through again.Can't see why the expectation when auctions moved online would be any different.
The auctioneer shook his head, and pointed to an identical car waiting to come into the ring. His car
It put a smile on the faces of the local dealers.
As it turned out, he'd bought a little gem, except it needed a gearbox, which he happened to have lying around in his garage at home !
Some people are born lucky ?
What is this I don't even...
ks.Fane said:
What's the difference between this and a regular auctioneer bidding against the wall? Are BCA and Bonhams crapping themselves I wonder?
When I was taught auctioneering (years ago) I was told that this was accepted practice. A tool of the auctioneer's trade which, if used "well" (depends on your perspective) can liven up the room to get a higher price, but can leave the auctioneer with questions to ask if they outbid the last legitimate bidder.I was also once told the story of an auctioneer who auctioned off a one pound note (it was a while ago...). Using their expertise, of which the above may have been part, they were able to create an intensity of bidding that resulted in the £1 note selling for £1.20. That's all down to the psychology of the competitive bidding situation. Never break your ceiling!
Edited by dxg on Tuesday 6th July 14:56
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