Northants.... 5 year olds to use speed traps.
Discussion
Just been watching this story on BBC Look East news.
The teachers were showing children as young as 4 how to use a laser speed gun.
A special workshop has been set up for children from a county school after they asked Northamptonshire County Council for help to slow traffic down outside their school.
The four and five-year-olds, from Red Class at Polebrook Primary School wrote to the county council about cars travelling too fast near the school. The children have designed road signs to tell drivers where the school is to try and slow them down.
The children will be shown how a hand held speed camera works and will get the chance to see the speed of passing cars flash up on a vehicle activated sign that will be parked outside the school. This will display the speed of vehicles driving past and the children will see if they are going too fast.
The county council is working with the school to look at ways to encourage motorists to slow down.
http://smartnews.northamptonshire.gov.uk/article2.asp?ID=37509
The teachers were showing children as young as 4 how to use a laser speed gun.
A special workshop has been set up for children from a county school after they asked Northamptonshire County Council for help to slow traffic down outside their school.
The four and five-year-olds, from Red Class at Polebrook Primary School wrote to the county council about cars travelling too fast near the school. The children have designed road signs to tell drivers where the school is to try and slow them down.
The children will be shown how a hand held speed camera works and will get the chance to see the speed of passing cars flash up on a vehicle activated sign that will be parked outside the school. This will display the speed of vehicles driving past and the children will see if they are going too fast.
The county council is working with the school to look at ways to encourage motorists to slow down.
http://smartnews.northamptonshire.gov.uk/article2.asp?ID=37509
Not good. To a five-year old this is just playing with traffic.
Children that young have very poor spatial awareness and really should not be anywhere near traffic, much less trying to make judgements about speed, unless they are holding the hand of an adult. What happens when they go and play the 'see how fast the cars are going' game on their own with a bit of wood for the pretend sensor?
When we were small kids, mum had very few absolute rules, but they were rigidly enforced. One of them was 'don't go near the road'.
What are their teachers thinking of?
Children that young have very poor spatial awareness and really should not be anywhere near traffic, much less trying to make judgements about speed, unless they are holding the hand of an adult. What happens when they go and play the 'see how fast the cars are going' game on their own with a bit of wood for the pretend sensor?
When we were small kids, mum had very few absolute rules, but they were rigidly enforced. One of them was 'don't go near the road'.
What are their teachers thinking of?
I have a 'it never did us any harm' attitude to this, which I grant can be used to justify almost anything, but when I was a small child we had 'Tufty Club.'
One aspect of this, which I still remember clearly *cough* years later, was to walk to the bridge over an A road that passed near the school and look at the speed of traffic on a radar gun. The person taking the lesson (who I think was a trafpol officer, but I may be wrong) explained how long it would take the cars to stop and how dangerous being on the road would be to us.
Handled well this could be a welcome return to old-school road safety lessons rather than engendering a 'cars are bad' or 'cars are toys' attitude.
Using reactive signage is also one of the few proven methods of reducing average traffic speeds, something even the most ardently libertarian driver would be hard pressed to argue with near schools.
One aspect of this, which I still remember clearly *cough* years later, was to walk to the bridge over an A road that passed near the school and look at the speed of traffic on a radar gun. The person taking the lesson (who I think was a trafpol officer, but I may be wrong) explained how long it would take the cars to stop and how dangerous being on the road would be to us.
Handled well this could be a welcome return to old-school road safety lessons rather than engendering a 'cars are bad' or 'cars are toys' attitude.
Using reactive signage is also one of the few proven methods of reducing average traffic speeds, something even the most ardently libertarian driver would be hard pressed to argue with near schools.
OK - so they have a flashing sign to let drivers know how fast they are going and also warn these children of the speeds of approaching cars. Fine! No real problem with that! Teaching young children how to assess the speed of an approaching vehicle - great! No problem with that either! Speed awareness for all! Good idea!
But teaching four and five year olds how to use a mobile speed gun? I'm with "rude girl" here! There is a danger that they could start playing this game on their own with whatever object comes to hand! Will they remember the aims and ojectives of the lesson? Or will they simply remember playing with a toy that gives a figure?
But - what is wrong with good old fashioned Green Cross Code, and looking and listening out for traffic at all times, and teaching how to estimate a car's speed without the aid of technology?. I am sure margo was older than 4 years old when she was taught this lesson by a trafpol! And I doubt whether she was allowed to use it for herself!
Have 4 "kittens" - eldest now 16 and he will be spending rest of this year proving to me and his Papa that he has sufficient road sense and appreciation of cars and performance before we will pay for lessons. He already knows we regard it as privilege and not his automatic right! His youngest brother (aged 6), like all our kids, can guestimate speed quite accurately. He, like his elder brothers and sister and cousins, has been taught by human being, shown by example of human being without a speed gun or any other gadget. After all, he will have to learn to judge speed without this aid during his lifetime! And his lessons in road safety are reinforced each time he leaves the home!
There has never ever been one occasion where any of these "kittens" has seen example of one family member j-walking or not using the provided crossings.
All for teaching speed awareness - but wonder whether using a speed gun is correct way to do so with such young children!
But teaching four and five year olds how to use a mobile speed gun? I'm with "rude girl" here! There is a danger that they could start playing this game on their own with whatever object comes to hand! Will they remember the aims and ojectives of the lesson? Or will they simply remember playing with a toy that gives a figure?
But - what is wrong with good old fashioned Green Cross Code, and looking and listening out for traffic at all times, and teaching how to estimate a car's speed without the aid of technology?. I am sure margo was older than 4 years old when she was taught this lesson by a trafpol! And I doubt whether she was allowed to use it for herself!
Have 4 "kittens" - eldest now 16 and he will be spending rest of this year proving to me and his Papa that he has sufficient road sense and appreciation of cars and performance before we will pay for lessons. He already knows we regard it as privilege and not his automatic right! His youngest brother (aged 6), like all our kids, can guestimate speed quite accurately. He, like his elder brothers and sister and cousins, has been taught by human being, shown by example of human being without a speed gun or any other gadget. After all, he will have to learn to judge speed without this aid during his lifetime! And his lessons in road safety are reinforced each time he leaves the home!
There has never ever been one occasion where any of these "kittens" has seen example of one family member j-walking or not using the provided crossings.
All for teaching speed awareness - but wonder whether using a speed gun is correct way to do so with such young children!
rude girl said:
Not good. To a five-year old this is just playing with traffic.
Children that young have very poor spatial awareness and really should not be anywhere near traffic, much less trying to make judgements about speed, unless they are holding the hand of an adult. What happens when they go and play the 'see how fast the cars are going' game on their own with a bit of wood for the pretend sensor?
When we were small kids, mum had very few absolute rules, but they were rigidly enforced. One of them was 'don't go near the road'.
are their teachers thinking of?
why ?
that what most of the mothers round my way let em do.
let natral selection take its course.
hear, hear!!
most kids these days wouldn't know who the green cross code man was if he slapped them in the face...
having said that - a grown man in tights near schoolkids these days would automatically be branded a paedophile - especially one that takes them by the hand and teaches them to cross the road in safety
(pedo for the touching, and probably an enemy of the state for depriving the ambulance chasing companies of providing someone to sue the arse off!)
most kids these days wouldn't know who the green cross code man was if he slapped them in the face...
having said that - a grown man in tights near schoolkids these days would automatically be branded a paedophile - especially one that takes them by the hand and teaches them to cross the road in safety
(pedo for the touching, and probably an enemy of the state for depriving the ambulance chasing companies of providing someone to sue the arse off!)
WildCat said:
I am sure margo was older than 4 years old when she was taught this lesson by a trafpol! And I doubt whether she was allowed to use it for herself!
I was 5 or 6, we were not allowed to use the gun, but we were shown clearly how it worked. This is what's being suggested here, according to the article:
"the children will be shown how a hand held speed camera works."
It's not a idea without flaws, but nor, IMO, is it one without merit.
btw: I'm only 'she' on weekends
I'm sure I was given a similar experience when I was about six. From what I can remember we proved that a rugby goal-post was moving at 30mph, but my memory is definitely not of the highest order. The underlying message of the teaching is what will be important.
On the other hand, the last story I heard about speed near school was about ten years ago and involved a place in Radlett (Herts) where the parents complained enough to get a speed camera set up near the school gates. Apparently, about 80% of those caught by the camera were parents picking up/dropping off kids.
Of course, nowadays they can't set up speed cameras near schools because responsible drivers keep their speed below 35mph
. (See here for details).
On the other hand, the last story I heard about speed near school was about ten years ago and involved a place in Radlett (Herts) where the parents complained enough to get a speed camera set up near the school gates. Apparently, about 80% of those caught by the camera were parents picking up/dropping off kids.
Of course, nowadays they can't set up speed cameras near schools because responsible drivers keep their speed below 35mph
. (See here for details).Don't really disagree with any of these points, but none of them address my central concern.
Five-year-old children should be out playing, absorbed in themselves. It is the responsibility of adults (parents principally (or teachers in loco parentis), plus police in the case of speeding outside schools, to keep tots safe - childhood is for innocence and freedom. All they need to know is that moving cars are dangerous. A 5-year old is almost a baby, many can't even count yet; using them to monitor speeding is cynical and unnecessary.
If they taught GCSE Physics students how speed cameras worked, I could see the point. Learn the science, and a reminder that when they get their licence next year, someone might give them a serious injury in the insurance department if they don't behave.
A car moving at even 15 or 20mph is too fast for a 5 year old to deal with - they're too easily distracted. Which is how it should be.
Five-year-old children should be out playing, absorbed in themselves. It is the responsibility of adults (parents principally (or teachers in loco parentis), plus police in the case of speeding outside schools, to keep tots safe - childhood is for innocence and freedom. All they need to know is that moving cars are dangerous. A 5-year old is almost a baby, many can't even count yet; using them to monitor speeding is cynical and unnecessary.
If they taught GCSE Physics students how speed cameras worked, I could see the point. Learn the science, and a reminder that when they get their licence next year, someone might give them a serious injury in the insurance department if they don't behave.
A car moving at even 15 or 20mph is too fast for a 5 year old to deal with - they're too easily distracted. Which is how it should be.
rude girl said:
Five-year-old children should be out playing, absorbed in themselves. It is the responsibility of adults (parents principally (or teachers in loco parentis), plus police in the case of speeding outside schools, to keep tots safe - childhood is for innocence and freedom. All they need to know is that moving cars are dangerous. A 5-year old is almost a baby, many can't even count yet; using them to monitor speeding is cynical and unnecessary.
I would continue to contend that this is not a illegitimate method of teaching children about the dangers of traffic if used alongside a more general education on road safety. That, of course, is not to say that this approach is not going to be used cynically.
Children can be given a greater degree of freedom if they are aware of the risks. A 5 year old is certainly capable of realising the presence of danger and responding to education pertaining thereto.
margo said:I believe that this is based on a paper written a while ago (and referenced on the site) that shows that those that drive at the 85th percentile speed are least likely to have accidents. That statement is a simplification, but much less so than "speed kills". It comes from the fact that better drivers are able to make safe progress at higher speeds than those with lesser abilities observation or car control, while most people without these attributes are not willing to drive as fast.
Peculiar assumption the SafeSpeed link - on what evidence is the assumption that the fastest 5% of those driving within the 90% percentile speed limits are the safest made ?
rude girl said:I agree with you almost 100%, but tots of 5 years can be surprisingly intellingent and will probably need the question "why?" answering in a thorough manner (whether they fully understand the answer or not). Childhood is becoming less and less about innocence and freedom because of the environment in which they are brought up. There are certain skills that children need to acquire before they can be allowed to discover the world on their own. Road safety is one of the most important. Innocence and freedom can only be allowed their flow in a situation where the risks are fairly minimal. Most towns and cities do not offer that environment without a certain amount of teaching that was not (as) required twenty years ago. Road safety is one such aspect of teaching (IMHO).
Don't really disagree with any of these points, but none of them address my central concern.
Five-year-old children should be out playing, absorbed in themselves. It is the responsibility of adults... to keep tots safe - childhood is for innocence and freedom. All they need to know is that moving cars are dangerous.
margo said:I'm not sure I'd say it was useful, I certainly don't believe that the session left me with any lasting impressions* that I haven't picked up by experience since. I hadn't thought about the experience since the time until this tread came up. Mind you, I suppose the fact that I remember it at all means that it must have done some good.
Interesting that the two of us, having been exposed to this kind of training, have reached the conclusion that it is, or can be, useful
* Except for the fun of watching the dogs pulling down the "criminal" which was fun.
Its quite clear to me what this is all about. Its about left wing teachers trying to brainwash children and fill their heads with their political and social beliefs.
It's no different to teaching them Johnny loves Dave or whatever sick title the book was called. Or the fact that we dont teach children about the second world war....Its always been a source of my anger that these people teach their own beliefs and not the national curriculum.
another reason to get rid of New labia and all its evils...
It's no different to teaching them Johnny loves Dave or whatever sick title the book was called. Or the fact that we dont teach children about the second world war....Its always been a source of my anger that these people teach their own beliefs and not the national curriculum.
another reason to get rid of New labia and all its evils...
rude girl said:
Five-year-old children should be out playing, absorbed in themselves. It is the responsibility of adults (parents principally (or teachers in loco parentis), plus police in the case of speeding outside schools, to keep tots safe - childhood is for innocence and freedom. All they need to know is that moving cars are dangerous. A 5-year old is almost a baby, many can't even count yet; using them to monitor speeding is cynical and unnecessary.
Kiddies belong AWAY from traffic, don't these damned lentilists know anything!!!!
But does showing a 4 year old how a hand held speed camera works really help? Will they really be able to judge speed and crossing a road in safety from what may be a one-off gimmick?
Still say learning how to cross a road and judge speed should be taught by parent and teacher and shown by constant example, and reinforced as constant each day! I could only go along with gimmicks such as this one provided they are followed up and message reinforced as a constant! With proper advert campaigns (no silly hedgehogs - we still cannot get the words to that naff song!) The "Green Cross" campaign should really be directed at everyone - not just kids! Too many adults have not been taught properly either!
My kids have been taught from toddling age that large moving object is called "CAR" and it travels "FAST" and if it hits you "IT WILL JOLLY WELL HURT!"
(Course the first 3 were only babies when I had the "unfortunate" - and they remember the recovery!)
Kids have been taught to use all crossings, never cross between parked cars, in front of buses and at bends! In short - we bring them up full of road sense and with a respect for traffic!
Youngest now just 6, and has long been able to tell me at the kerb that "Not safe to cross yet, Mama, Car too fast!" Youngest will also lead ME to safe place to cross!
(Kid also super-excellent at spotting speed cameras and talivans - we are bringing him up the RIGHT way!!
)
Still say learning how to cross a road and judge speed should be taught by parent and teacher and shown by constant example, and reinforced as constant each day! I could only go along with gimmicks such as this one provided they are followed up and message reinforced as a constant! With proper advert campaigns (no silly hedgehogs - we still cannot get the words to that naff song!) The "Green Cross" campaign should really be directed at everyone - not just kids! Too many adults have not been taught properly either!
My kids have been taught from toddling age that large moving object is called "CAR" and it travels "FAST" and if it hits you "IT WILL JOLLY WELL HURT!"
(Course the first 3 were only babies when I had the "unfortunate" - and they remember the recovery!)
Kids have been taught to use all crossings, never cross between parked cars, in front of buses and at bends! In short - we bring them up full of road sense and with a respect for traffic!
Youngest now just 6, and has long been able to tell me at the kerb that "Not safe to cross yet, Mama, Car too fast!" Youngest will also lead ME to safe place to cross!
(Kid also super-excellent at spotting speed cameras and talivans - we are bringing him up the RIGHT way!!
) margo said:Humm. I would have thought that the principles of amplifying light by stimulating the emmision of radiation, of so-called "coherent" light, of Doppler Shift, of electrons and photons, of Silicon circuitry, etc., etc., to be a little beyond the comprehension of 5-year old children. Much of it is beyond the comprehension of 35-year old children
I was 5 or 6, we were not allowed to use the gun, but we were shown clearly how it worked. This is what's being suggested here, according to the article:
"the children will be shown how a hand held speed camera works."
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