F430 v M3CSL 'ring times...

[roygarth]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%BCrburgring_lap_...

How can M3CSL (350BHP / 1383KG) be quicker than F430 (490BHP / 1450KG)

Tyres?

[AngryApples]

roygarth said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%BCrburgring_lap_...

How can M3CSL (350BHP / 1383KG) be quicker than F430 (490BHP / 1450KG)

Tyres?

Complete gulf between the two drivers skill set?

[Complex]

Both driven by Horst von Saurma apparently.

[JayK12]

The M3 CSL comes with Michelin Cup cut Slicks. These will make a massive difference. Its not shabby under braking or around the corners either.

The Honda NSX Type R NA2 is only 1.7 seconds behind the 430 and that only had 280hp weight is 1270kg but handling is amazing.

[roygarth]

more I look at cars around it on that link the less I believe that time....quicker than a 997 turbo?!

[Libertine]

My guess is track/weather conditions could be the influencing factor. Time of day, time of year, moist/wet track etc.

[Streetrod]

Guys power to weight ratio's are not the be all and end all. Lets not forget the massive auguments that went around when people could not believe the GTR was faster that the Porsche Turbo around the ring when it had less power and was a lot heavier. A huge amount of factors come into play when it comes to how fast a car is around a track.

Another classic was how much faster the Zonda F was over the Veyron around the Top Gear track, again on paper the Veyron should have beaten it.

[NoelWatson]

JayK12 said:

The Honda NSX Type R NA2 is only 1.7 seconds behind the 430 and that only had 280hp weight is 1270kg but handling is amazing.

Not sure if that one was 100% standard

[bromers2]

roygarth said:

more I look at cars around it on that link the less I believe that time....quicker than a 997 turbo?!

Drive one and you'll know why.

[roygarth]

Different cars 'suit' different tracks ie my 993RS is closer to my F430 at Ring than at Spa. I know how close I am to M3CSL at Ring and Spa in my 993RS and although M3CSL is more 'suited' to Ring than F430, I just don't see how it can actually be quicker. Perhaps tyres played a part.

But hey, if it is, I will sleep tonight!

[Taffymoto]

According to that list an LP640 is 2 seconds quicker than the LP670. Having 30 more BHP, being lighter and having improved aerodynamics I find this hard to believe. Rogue list or as stated, far too many variables to make the list anything other than a bit of fun.

[Lagerlout]

It's not a rogue test, I remember that test in period when I owned my CSL. They are very quick make no mistake and the suspension setup is very suited to the ring. Sure the tyres make a large difference to the times but these were how they came from the factory so it's not a bodge. Isn't there the option to specify GT3's now with these tyres or similar? Just a bit of a cheeky from BMW at the time. In the real world there is no way the CSL is as quick as a 997 Turbo. PS if you guys haven't driven a CSL you don't know what you're missing out on, these cars are so much fun to drive (huge power slides on tap) and make the most glorious sound!

[MATT427]

maybe be the list doesn't account for differnet weather conditions? a damp track would add large amount of time, compared to a dry and hot lap.

[Peely]

bromers2 said:

roygarth said:

more I look at cars around it on that link the less I believe that time....quicker than a 997 turbo?!

Drive one and you'll know why.

...........

Lagerlout said:

In the real world there is no way the CSL is as quick as a 997 Turbo.

Yip !

[Nords]

roygarth said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%BCrburgring_lap_...

How can M3CSL (350BHP / 1383KG) be quicker than F430 (490BHP / 1450KG)

Tyres?

It is just the way of the world, as a certain guy called Chapman once said "life is too short to drink bad coffee or drive a diesel"..... sorry I meant "for more speed, just add lightness, not adding hairdresser friendly options and sticking the engine in the wrong place..."

Edited by Nords on Sunday 11th July 23:58

[roygarth]

Nords said:

It is just the way of the world, as a certain guy called Chapman once said "life is too short to drink bad coffee or drive a diesel"..... sorry I meant "for more speed, just add lightness, not adding hairdresser friendly options and sticking the engine in the wrong place..."

Presumably he said this before o building the mid-engined Europa, Esprit etc? :-)

[wtdoom]

roygarth said:

Nords said:

It is just the way of the world, as a certain guy called Chapman once said "life is too short to drink bad coffee or drive a diesel"..... sorry I meant "for more speed, just add lightness, not adding hairdresser friendly options and sticking the engine in the wrong place..."

Presumably he said this before o building the mid-engined Europa, Esprit etc? :-)

no its burt chapman he said it before making his chip butty .

[Wills2]

You can also see that a 911 turbo has clocked a 7.38 time which is well under the CSL's Even my C2S times the same as the CSL at 7.50.

That 7.55 for the Turbo looks slighty off compared to the other times...

Edited by Wills2 on Tuesday 13th July 12:08

[Nords]

wtdoom said:

roygarth said:

Nords said:

It is just the way of the world, as a certain guy called Chapman once said "life is too short to drink bad coffee or drive a diesel"..... sorry I meant "for more speed, just add lightness, not adding hairdresser friendly options and sticking the engine in the wrong place..."

Presumably he said this before o building the mid-engined Europa, Esprit etc? :-)

no its burt chapman he said it before making his chip butty .

Indeed, Burt said that chips in the middle or front of your nutty are fine, but hanging out of the bread on the opposite side to which you bite is just wrong!