Tuscan front discs on a cerb
Discussion
Just had new tuscan discs and new pads put on the front of my 4.5 cerb - recommended by Peninsula cos they cost 1/2 as much as the cerb equivilant - any thoughts?
Also I have heard rumours that there are specific bedding in routines to be done on new discs and pads to stop uneven heating/early warping. As the original brakes were replaced because of a slight judder I am keen to avoid any possibility of disc warp.
S.
Also I have heard rumours that there are specific bedding in routines to be done on new discs and pads to stop uneven heating/early warping. As the original brakes were replaced because of a slight judder I am keen to avoid any possibility of disc warp.
S.
sethlj said:
Also I have heard rumours that there are specific bedding in routines to be done on new discs and pads to stop uneven heating/early warping. As the original brakes were replaced because of a slight judder I am keen to avoid any possibility of disc warp.
The whole warping thing'll open a can of worms over whether it's an urban legend or not...
However, there are heat-cycle bedding in procedures on new pads to (allegedly) ensure minimal wear & maximum friction. The procedure I was always taught was to make a series of low-speed stops, working up from a few mph to 30mph+. As the speed increases beyond 30-ish, apply the brakes harder & harder each time, but always keep the car travelling (at a couple of mph at slowest). After this, drive the car around for a few minutes without braking if possible to cool it all off. And make sure the brakes are released before coming to a halt at all times. If your brakes start to fade at any point, take a break (just driving around) to let them cool down.
Whether you'll get any mileage [groan] out of this is another matter!
Hope that helps!
I'm personally not a big fan of the Tuscan discs, they're not handed on the cooling vanes so one side runs hotter than the other (you can measure that with a thermometer). Plus they're cross drilled so crack much more easily than the std discs!
You can do a proper upgrade with decent AP stuff for less than the TVR std discs, and you're sorted for years then
.. ask B19TOY what he thinks to AP upgrade versus TVR stuff ..!! we cut his brake bills to maybe a tenth of what they were previously .. TVR stuff changed every 3rd or 4th track day, AP upgrade still going strong after 30 track days!!
My advice is avoid the TVR stuff unless you're on a very limited budget/ never use your brakes in anger and are selling the car in the next few months..
You can do a proper upgrade with decent AP stuff for less than the TVR std discs, and you're sorted for years then
.. ask B19TOY what he thinks to AP upgrade versus TVR stuff ..!! we cut his brake bills to maybe a tenth of what they were previously .. TVR stuff changed every 3rd or 4th track day, AP upgrade still going strong after 30 track days!! My advice is avoid the TVR stuff unless you're on a very limited budget/ never use your brakes in anger and are selling the car in the next few months..
This is the main gist of it from the Stoptech site:
The procedure is several stops of increasing severity with a brief cooling period between them. After the last stop, the system should be allowed to cool to ambient temperature. Typically, a series of ten increasingly hard stops from 60mph to 5 mph with normal acceleration in between should get the job done for a high performance street pad. During pad or disc break-in, do not come to a complete stop, so plan where and when you do this procedure with care and concern for yourself and the safety of others. If you come to a complete stop before the break-in process is completed there is the chance for the non-uniform pad material transfer to take place and the results will be what the whole process is trying to avoid. Game over.
For a race pad, typically four 80mph to 5 and two 100mph to 5, depending on the pad, will also be necessary to raise the system temperatures during break-in to the range that the pad material was designed to operate at.
The procedure is several stops of increasing severity with a brief cooling period between them. After the last stop, the system should be allowed to cool to ambient temperature. Typically, a series of ten increasingly hard stops from 60mph to 5 mph with normal acceleration in between should get the job done for a high performance street pad. During pad or disc break-in, do not come to a complete stop, so plan where and when you do this procedure with care and concern for yourself and the safety of others. If you come to a complete stop before the break-in process is completed there is the chance for the non-uniform pad material transfer to take place and the results will be what the whole process is trying to avoid. Game over.
For a race pad, typically four 80mph to 5 and two 100mph to 5, depending on the pad, will also be necessary to raise the system temperatures during break-in to the range that the pad material was designed to operate at.
joospeed said:
I'm personally not a big fan of the Tuscan discs, they're not handed on the cooling vanes so one side runs hotter than the other (you can measure that with a thermometer). Plus they're cross drilled so crack much more easily than the std discs!
You can do a proper upgrade with decent AP stuff for less than the TVR std discs, and you're sorted for years then
My advice is avoid the TVR stuff unless you're on a very limited budget/ never use your brakes in anger and are selling the car in the next few months..
So, are you saying an AP upgrade is cheaper in the first place that the Tuscan brakes? Or it works out cheaper in the long run if you are a trackie? And if you don't do track days but want upgraded brakes, the Tuscan is okay for normal road use (but you're not a fan)?
Does that make sense Jools?
arcbeer said:
This is the main gist of it from the Stoptech site: The procedure is several stops of increasing severity with a brief cooling period between them.
Hang on there..a whole lot depends on the pads fitted.
Some you have to bed in quite viciously (several stops from 60 Mph+), e.g. Porterfield pads
Conversely, standard pads would be destroyed following the above procedure. Contact the manufacturer, I suggest.
yiw1393 said:
I'm personally not a big fan of the Tuscan discs, they're not handed on the cooling vanes so one side runs hotter than the other (you can measure that with a thermometer). Plus they're cross drilled so crack much more easily than the std discs!
You can do a proper upgrade with decent AP stuff for less than the TVR std discs, and you're sorted for years then
My advice is avoid the TVR stuff unless you're on a very limited budget/ never use your brakes in anger and are selling the car in the next few months..
So, are you saying an AP upgrade is cheaper in the first place that the Tuscan brakes? Or it works out cheaper in the long run if you are a trackie? And if you don't do track days but want upgraded brakes, the Tuscan is okay for normal road use (but you're not a fan)?
Does that make sense Jools?
er .. something like that ..
the tuscan discs come in at around 140 pounds each? .. well if you source some s/hand 4.5 discs or are converting a 4.5 already fitted with std facotry discs and bells, all you need is the proper AP grooved disc, some small caliper spacers and decent pads .. hey presto one upgrade kit
The AP discs are about 160/170 each but last ten times longer, plus are wholly recommended if you do alot of track days. If you're runing on the road and have a std 4.5 (replacement tvr discs 400 pounds each!!) then the tuscan drilled option is one way of getting you on the road cheaply, but i remember detroying the drilled discs on jon lewis' tuscan at oulton doing the nitron suspension testing for the new (as was then) NTR range, they cracked half way through the day and needed all four replacing .. not what i'd call a bargain performance disc.
If you're just doing road driving though they're ok!
One thing to bear in mind about track days though is that, the more a novice you are the more you'll depend on your brakes. You'll be almost as fast down the straights as the very fast boys, but will want to shed more speed at the end of the straight for the corner, therefore novices who only do a couple of track days a year tend to be harder on their brakes than the experts who carry more corner speed. Also braking technique has alot to do with longevity of pads and discs. I have particualrly poor technique so I kill brakes quite often .. in these cases a higher spec disc is defo the way to go
er.. hope that helps .. or does it!?
trouble with the 4.2 caliper is it only takes discs up to 304 mm .. you can machine the inside of the caliper, but that's only for people with very limited budget .. AP unsurprisingly frown upon it (they're losing a pair of caliper sales after all) but an AP employee told me unofficially that it was ok .. I've done it for one customer who insisted he couldn't afford larger calipers, but i wasn't happy and i think i got him to sign a disclaimer saying he'd insisted on it against my advice.
You can do a decent upgrade though on the AP 304mm disc, but you need new bells machined, hence the reason upgrading 4.2 brakes is much more expensive than the 4.5.
Easiest way is to get the complete front brakes including caliper spacers for the modified uprights off a 4.5 cerbie from somewhere like douglas valley breakers and start from there!
You can do a decent upgrade though on the AP 304mm disc, but you need new bells machined, hence the reason upgrading 4.2 brakes is much more expensive than the 4.5.
Easiest way is to get the complete front brakes including caliper spacers for the modified uprights off a 4.5 cerbie from somewhere like douglas valley breakers and start from there!
And mine have both "TVR" and "ap racing" engraved. 
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