Open wheel front-mounted transverse
Discussion
I'd like to "knock together" my own design of kit, rush-style maybe (not covered wheel at the very least) but I'd like to use a specific donor and maintain its 4WD running gear. Big task, I know, and I'm working around the (questionable) possibilities but I'm wondering about peoples thoughts on weight balance, roll height etc of a front mounted transverse 4WD engine layout. Also, are there any in production - im drawing a few up but I can't help thinking the engine will look a bit like a blob between the front wheels and massively push the C of G forward.
Thought that was essentially longitudinally mounted boxer (and quite flat in comparison with a normal 4 cyl)? The engine would be approx 3" over the top of a set of 17s when sat in place, possibly lower if I fancy pushing the CVs a bit, but that still is sort of "in the way" isn't it?
By " rush-style" do you mean dax rush? The only transverse front engine kits that I know of are all front wheel drive like the sylva jester etc. If you wanted a transverse engine with open wheels it will have to be very wide at the front to accomodate the gearbox too.
A few more details like the number of seats and donor drive train would be usefull as I'm not entirely sure what you mean.
A few more details like the number of seats and donor drive train would be usefull as I'm not entirely sure what you mean.
EDIT (Dax, yup)I'm essentially considering using a fairly modified celica GT4 as a donor and keeping its track and wheelbase so plenty wide and long enough to accommodate 2 seats (or 1+2 arrangement, though not sure I like the idea of passing the prop between my legs!) and keeping the centre of mass a bit further back. I like the handling of the existing car and I'm more than comfortable with it/its parts/its repairs/tuning it but would ideally like to drop its mass by around 50% and remove the overhangs front and rear, and improve the handling if possible. I could take the fibreglass panel and polycarb window and maybe knock 20% off but thats a similar financial black hole and has less in the way of personal input 
I'd considered making a GRP copy of the body and dropping it onto an appropriate spaceframe but the body creation would be costly and not really help matters.
I'd considered making a GRP copy of the body and dropping it onto an appropriate spaceframe but the body creation would be costly and not really help matters.
Edited by Coyoteboy on Wednesday 14th July 13:35
It's an interesting idea, and one that has been tried before (Onyx Tomcat) (the ugliest kit car that has ever existed). The boxer engine might be very slightly advantageous in terms of visuals but not by much, I believe there is a fair bit of stuff that has to fit on top of it. The main visual problem is caused by the high bonnet line necessary, and it's something of a design triumph if you can come up with something that looks good if the rest of the car is to be lower than your average tin-top (Audi TT for instance, which I understand a lot of people consider attractive.
As the overall weight reduces, so the proportion over the front wheels increases, of course, even if the wheelbase is kept relatively long (the engine and gearbox being by far the heaviest bits)
As the overall weight reduces, so the proportion over the front wheels increases, of course, even if the wheelbase is kept relatively long (the engine and gearbox being by far the heaviest bits)
singlecoil said:
It's an interesting idea, and one that has been tried before (Onyx Tomcat)
Maybe you are thinking of the Firefox (which was FWD only)? The Onyx Tomcat was a mid engined buggy, very similar in design and appearance to the Blitz and quite a fun looking car IMO.Of course there have been several successful transverse front engined kit cars e.g. Midas, Mini Marcos, Quantum, Onyx Firefly etc.
Mr2Mike said:
singlecoil said:
It's an interesting idea, and one that has been tried before (Onyx Tomcat)
Maybe you are thinking of the Firefox (which was FWD only)? The Onyx Tomcat was a mid engined buggy, very similar in design and appearance to the Blitz and quite a fun looking car IMO.Of course there have been several successful transverse front engined kit cars e.g. Midas, Mini Marcos, Quantum, Onyx Firefly etc.
The other cars were successful up to a point, but I don't think any of them are in production now?
mmm the relative proportion of weight at the front does indeed worry me, I think I could balance it out with a couple of passengers and a full tank of fuel but obviously that's a poor method due to them being a little variable That said, I'd be looking to have a fairly hefty protection cell around the passengers so maybe closer than first thought possible. I reckon that with a little tweaking I could stick on a side-feed manifold and invert it, remove the chargecooler from its current location and that would bring the overall engine height down to no more than an inch or so above the front wheels. It would then fit into something similar in shape to a cobra, but still no open wheeled ideal is it lol.
Maybe I should scrap the 4wd plan and just stick with an engine I know and mate it to the supra box and celica LSD. A LOT easier to package!
That said, I'd be looking to have a fairly hefty protection cell around the passengers so maybe closer than first thought possible. I reckon that with a little tweaking I could stick on a side-feed manifold and invert it, remove the chargecooler from its current location and that would bring the overall engine height down to no more than an inch or so above the front wheels. It would then fit into something similar in shape to a cobra, but still no open wheeled ideal is it lol.Maybe I should scrap the 4wd plan and just stick with an engine I know and mate it to the supra box and celica LSD. A LOT easier to package!
The subaru engine also sits WAY further forward than my engine, though it does still average out over the axle it will make turning even worse.
http://www.saweb.co.za/auto/autoafri-06/photos/sub...
http://www.saweb.co.za/auto/autoafri-06/photos/sub...
singlecoil said:
Mr2Mike said:
The Quantum is
The FWD version?http://www.quantumheritage.co.uk/
Mr2Mike said:
singlecoil said:
Mr2Mike said:
The Quantum is
The FWD version?http://www.quantumheritage.co.uk/
Easily the most attractive of the FWD kits, IMO, but I expect it's quite expensive to produce.
I always thought the Minari was a nice looking car, but it had the advantage of a boxer engine rather than transverse i4.
Just a thought; the Onyx Firefly was being marketed as the "Dart Firefly" in the not too distant past, does anyone know what happened to it?
Just a thought; the Onyx Firefly was being marketed as the "Dart Firefly" in the not too distant past, does anyone know what happened to it?
Edited by Mr2Mike on Thursday 15th July 17:13
Mr2Mike said:
I always thought the Minari was a nice looking car,
Definately!!! Mr2Mike said:
Just a thought; the Onyx Firefly was being marketed as the "Dart Firefly" in the not too distant past, does anyone know what happened to it?
In Holland last I heard.http://www.alphax-kitcars.com/English-index.php
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