Another what car for a track learner..

[Horrocks]

Basically, after looking at the forum for sometime, I am struggling for a choice in car to tinker with, my plan would be to basically learn about the car mostly over time with the view to track the car itself and uprate the suspension, brakes etc. Id really like an engine conversion just for learning and speed purposes.

Anybody got any ideas in mind?

I currently have looked at hot hatches due to a young mans budget:

-Pug 205 Gti
-Vauxhall Nova (Apparantly ideal to play with as a first timer)
-Renault 5

Any help is appreciated.

[t11ner]

Let me be the first one to say MX5 as it's something of a PH tradition!

I personally wouldn't go Nova or R5 as one doesn't handle as well as some of the alternatives and one isn't as reliable as you might like (guess which is which, and I know anything can be made to handle or not break but only at a cost!).

The 205 is a decent choice but if you fancy something a bit newer then I'd go for a 106GTi or 106 Rallye - nice cars to drive, not too much power to get you started but enough to keep up with a surprisingly large number of other cars as they do handle pretty well.

If you'd consider rwd then E30 or E36 beemers can be picked up for proper money as well...............

Edited by t11ner on Friday 16th July 15:08

[Horrocks]

They are ugly though, I really do not like them. They the ultimate track weapon when changed about a bit I guess?

[t11ner]

Are you talking about the 106 or the BMW?

[Horrocks]

t11ner said:

Let me be the first one to say MX5 as it's something of a PH tradition!

ETA - proper answer

I personally wouldn't go Nova or R5 as one doesn't handle as well as some of the alternatives and one isn't as reliable as you might like (guess which is which, and I know anything can be made to handle or not break but only at a cost!).

The 205 is a decent choice but if you fancy something a bit newer then I'd go for a 106GTi or 106 Rallye - nice cars to drive, not too much power to get you started but enough to keep up with a surprisingly large number of other cars as they do handle pretty well.

If you'd consider rwd then E30 or E36 beemers can be picked up for proper money as well...............

Edited by t11ner on Friday 16th July 15:07

I love the idea of a beamer but my age is against me as I have no means of towing. So insurance would be an issue with that in mind. A 106 Gti is a good idea, have you driven one before?

[Horrocks]

I was talking about the MX5 haha, we had a conflict in editting and posting I think..

[t11ner]

The MX5 wouldn't be my first choice TBH but I wouldn't have said they are ugly and they do have something of a following on here.

I've owned a 1.3 106 Rallye as a trackday car and I've currently got a supercharged GTi in the toy collection.

[300bhp/ton]

Horrocks said:

Basically, after looking at the forum for sometime, I am struggling for a choice in car to tinker with, my plan would be to basically learn about the car mostly over time with the view to track the car itself and uprate the suspension, brakes etc. Id really like an engine conversion just for learning and speed purposes.

Anybody got any ideas in mind?

I currently have looked at hot hatches due to a young mans budget:

-Pug 205 Gti
-Vauxhall Nova (Apparantly ideal to play with as a first timer)
-Renault 5

Any help is appreciated.

I keep considering some form of track car myself.

My hit list consists of things like a Midas Coupe (part designed by Gordon Murry). Ginetta's (the wegdy ones), MGF (becuase the are mid engine/rwd and very cheap, plus good performance).

A Metro with a VVC engine also appeals, or something zany like an old Morris Minor with a modern engine (Rover K-Series/KV6) or a bike engine.

All of these can be had for sensible money too, and I believe all would be more interesting and potentially more fun than a Nova or similar.

Lotus Eclats are pretty cheap these days too.

Some pics to show you what they are:












EDIT:

Just to add, if insurance is an issue. Classic and kit cars will certainly be the cheapest things to insure. So out of the ones I've listed the MGF and then the Metro are likely to be the most expensive, with the Midas and Ginetta probably the cheapest.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Friday 16th July 15:44

[Horrocks]

Thank you for the input mate^^ I do like the idea of a classic, but feel the parts would be difficult to come by..?

As for the 106 RallyE, is it still a 1.3 engine?

[300bhp/ton]

Horrocks said:

Thank you for the input mate^^ I do like the idea of a classic, but feel the parts would be difficult to come by..?

It would depend on the exact car/model, but as a rule no.

I've got as a 3rd car currently a 1977 Triumph TR7 V8. You can buy pretty every part for it new, including a new bodyshell if you so want.

Regular parts are generally cheaper than similar parts where for my Nissan coupe (sold earlier this year) or the 106 Pug I had before it.

Things like the Midas use Metro/Mini subframes and running gear and their own composite race car like chassis. So all mechanical parts are cheap and plentiful.

The Ginetta's are using Ford running gear, so as easy and cheap as getting bits for a Fiesta/Cortina.

Horrocks said:

As for the 106 RallyE, is it still a 1.3 engine?

Think so, but not sure.

[RB26DETT]

Ford Fiesta XR2i ?

[s1rallyemark]

Rallye S1 is 1.3, cant go wrong with these cars really good fun

[t11ner]

The S1 is a 1.3 and the S2 is a 1.6 - both 8v. There's a lot of rallyes around with 16v conversions as well which can be nice if done properly but would probably spank you on insurance

[Horrocks]

t11ner said:

The S1 is a 1.3 and the S2 is a 1.6 - both 8v. There's a lot of rallyes around with 16v conversions as well which can be nice if done properly but would probably spank you on insurance

Out of pure curiosity, the 1.3 engine can take the pain on a track day? I don't know why but ive always assumed the bigger the engine, the more it can take. Obviously this is me just acting 10 years old I guess!

[300bhp/ton]

Horrocks said:

t11ner said:

The S1 is a 1.3 and the S2 is a 1.6 - both 8v. There's a lot of rallyes around with 16v conversions as well which can be nice if done properly but would probably spank you on insurance

Out of pure curiosity, the 1.3 engine can take the pain on a track day? I don't know why but ive always assumed the bigger the engine, the more it can take. Obviously this is me just acting 10 years old I guess!

Engine size doesn't mean much in that context. State of tune will have a greater affect on durability.

That said, IMO a 1.6 isn't really much bigger than a 1.3

[t11ner]

Nope, it does make sense. The engine will take it but there's a point where you start to want more power - especially on trackdays where you get people that will hold you up in the corners and then boot it to pull away again on the straights. However, you don't want too much power at first as it makes you learn to drive properly and so when you do upgrade later you'll appreciate the difference better!

I went from my S1 to a 205 with an MI in it but I missed the way the 106 handled and so went back to the GTi and chucked the 'charger at it .

I also run a Westfield now so the Pug is mostly for wet weather use

[fatbaldbloke]

If you've no track experience I would suggest using the car you currently have for the first couple of track days as at least you know what it's likely to do.

For a dedicated toy, I'd chuck Pug 306/Citroen Xsara into the mix. They're inexpensive, there are a huge choice of engines and they handle very nicely. I found my old 306 XRDT to be very forgiving when I arrived far too quickly into corners at the ring, even when commiting the cardinal sin of braking mid-corner because I'd made such a mess of things.

[Horrocks]

fatbaldbloke said:

If you've no track experience I would suggest using the car you currently have for the first couple of track days as at least you know what it's likely to do.

For a dedicated toy, I'd chuck Pug 306/Citroen Xsara into the mix. They're inexpensive, there are a huge choice of engines and they handle very nicely. I found my old 306 XRDT to be very forgiving when I arrived far too quickly into corners at the ring, even when commiting the cardinal sin of braking mid-corner because I'd made such a mess of things.

I intend to visit a track day just to watch, as my current car which is a Renault Clio is almost brand new at 10k miles for a 2006 model.

Did you enjoy your first track day experiences yeh?

[Horrocks]

t11ner said:

Nope, it does make sense. The engine will take it but there's a point where you start to want more power - especially on trackdays where you get people that will hold you up in the corners and then boot it to pull away again on the straights. However, you don't want too much power at first as it makes you learn to drive properly and so when you do upgrade later you'll appreciate the difference better!

I went from my S1 to a 205 with an MI in it but I missed the way the 106 handled and so went back to the GTi and chucked the 'charger at it .

I also run a Westfield now so the Pug is mostly for wet weather use

I intend to maybe run a 1.3 and tune up the handling/brakes to a point they dont fail, in terms of the engine durability, what sort of things do I need to re-build/check so that it doesn't completely fail and I cant get home? Obviously I will have breakdown cover too!

[nobodyknows]

Clio 172 or MR2?