Kit car newbie, 7 type help please.
Discussion
Hello all.
After having sold my track car and banger rally car I have decided that I now want to build something abit quicker and newer than a stripped out 20 year old saloon.
I'm pretty handy with the spanners (and the welder and the lathe and mill) but not flush with cash so I'm looking for something that will cost less but doesn't matter if it requires more work.
I want to start with something new as well, I have seen plenty of 'unfinished projects' for sale but I dont want anything that someone (who couldn't finish the job) has had their grubby mitts (and grinder and drill) all over.
So far I have seen three possibilities for a 7 type car that seem to fit the bill:
The Tiger Sprint Avon Lowcost http://www.tigerracing.com/avon.php
The MK Indy http://www.mksportscar.co.uk/index.php?option=com_...
And the Great British Sports Cars Zero http://www.lolocost.co.uk/Custom/index2468.cfm
They all seem to be hovering about the £2500 mark to get the bits to make a decent start, obviously I'll need a donor car and other parts but I am intending to build it in dribs and drabs over the next 18 months as I find and purchase bits.
They all seem very similar though so I have no idea which to really look into, I like the Avon Lowcost option though as I already run a mates car at 750MC events so could eventually take it racing and run alongside him. I like the MK Indy though as they seem to sell everything seperately, so I could get a chassis and make a start, I dont see the point of paying for bodywork and then having to store it for a year while the car is built, I'd rather buy things as I need them. And I like the Zero as they are based only a few miles away and have a showroom to go and view apparently.
Anyone got any recomendations or opinions on these three? Is there anything else out there that I am missing?
Lastly having designed and worked on race car spaceframes before I'd like to have a look at the bare frames of the three, does anyone know were I'd find some good pictures?
Cheers
After having sold my track car and banger rally car I have decided that I now want to build something abit quicker and newer than a stripped out 20 year old saloon.
I'm pretty handy with the spanners (and the welder and the lathe and mill) but not flush with cash so I'm looking for something that will cost less but doesn't matter if it requires more work.
I want to start with something new as well, I have seen plenty of 'unfinished projects' for sale but I dont want anything that someone (who couldn't finish the job) has had their grubby mitts (and grinder and drill) all over.
So far I have seen three possibilities for a 7 type car that seem to fit the bill:
The Tiger Sprint Avon Lowcost http://www.tigerracing.com/avon.php
The MK Indy http://www.mksportscar.co.uk/index.php?option=com_...
And the Great British Sports Cars Zero http://www.lolocost.co.uk/Custom/index2468.cfm
They all seem to be hovering about the £2500 mark to get the bits to make a decent start, obviously I'll need a donor car and other parts but I am intending to build it in dribs and drabs over the next 18 months as I find and purchase bits.
They all seem very similar though so I have no idea which to really look into, I like the Avon Lowcost option though as I already run a mates car at 750MC events so could eventually take it racing and run alongside him. I like the MK Indy though as they seem to sell everything seperately, so I could get a chassis and make a start, I dont see the point of paying for bodywork and then having to store it for a year while the car is built, I'd rather buy things as I need them. And I like the Zero as they are based only a few miles away and have a showroom to go and view apparently.
Anyone got any recomendations or opinions on these three? Is there anything else out there that I am missing?
Lastly having designed and worked on race car spaceframes before I'd like to have a look at the bare frames of the three, does anyone know were I'd find some good pictures?
Cheers
You could try One Of These,
Made by MEV, the company make a number of other cars too. Stig mills is a member on here too.
http://www.mevltd.co.uk/
Made by MEV, the company make a number of other cars too. Stig mills is a member on here too.
http://www.mevltd.co.uk/
thescamper said:
You could try One Of These,
Made by MEV, the company make a number of other cars too. Stig mills is a member on here too.
http://www.mevltd.co.uk/
Sorry none of those really interest me, the 7 is such a classic, subtle and good looking shape and I've wanted to do one for years. When done right they just look perfect.Made by MEV, the company make a number of other cars too. Stig mills is a member on here too.
http://www.mevltd.co.uk/
Hi
Do you run a 750MC Locost for a mate? If so, the Avon isn't eligible for the same series - the chassis is different. I'm not a great fan of Tigers myself but I've never owned one. I do know that the bodywork on the Avon is generally pretty poor.
The cheapest supplier of Locost kit bits that I know of are Alied Motorsport: http://www.alliedmotorsport.co.uk/Products.htm
Speak to Rich - he races a Locost and will give you sensible advice. You could also try Aries: www.ariesmotorsport.co.uk
I have owned a MK Indy. It would be a nice straightforward build but be aware that the rear geometry is flawed (positive camber when cornering hard.)
The Robin Hood will probably require the most work, but you clearly have the skills to cope. I've no experience of these but note that there's none racing...
Check out www.locostbuilders.co.uk if you haven't already.
Do you run a 750MC Locost for a mate? If so, the Avon isn't eligible for the same series - the chassis is different. I'm not a great fan of Tigers myself but I've never owned one. I do know that the bodywork on the Avon is generally pretty poor.
The cheapest supplier of Locost kit bits that I know of are Alied Motorsport: http://www.alliedmotorsport.co.uk/Products.htm
Speak to Rich - he races a Locost and will give you sensible advice. You could also try Aries: www.ariesmotorsport.co.uk
I have owned a MK Indy. It would be a nice straightforward build but be aware that the rear geometry is flawed (positive camber when cornering hard.)
The Robin Hood will probably require the most work, but you clearly have the skills to cope. I've no experience of these but note that there's none racing...
Check out www.locostbuilders.co.uk if you haven't already.
Edited by Tim.C on Sunday 18th July 21:08
Just to pick up on Tims point regarding the Indy, the suspension geo on the Indy R does not suffer the same as the original Indy, if you pick up a 2nd hand Indy and you are handy then moving the rear suspension pick up points solves the problem, its only noticeable btw when driving at 10 10ths on track.
eta your only a few miles from GB ? Where are you, you must be close to me, and not a million miles from MK ?
eta your only a few miles from GB ? Where are you, you must be close to me, and not a million miles from MK ?
Edited by Jon Ison on Sunday 18th July 21:21
Cheers guys, I'm starting to hatch a plan but there are so many competing that are very similarly priced.
I'm leaning towards building an MK Indy with a bike engine, frankly fitting a car I have lovingly crafted with an engine that Ford designed badly in the first place and has been getting s
tter for 25 years fills me with dread.
The Allied looked well priced at just £750 for a 750mc caged chassis.
Also as I want to go bare and lightweight I think the bike engine route is best.
The chassis with a roll cage all seem to fall between £800-£1000 although I am not 100% sure if the MK Indy R comes with a cage as standard, the pics suggest it does.
I'm going to buy a bare chassis and a bike and start from there I think, I'll try and buy just the few Sierra bits I need, my grandparents have had enough of having my cars outside there house, just a bike and car can stay in the garage I am currently preparing for the project
I really want to have a look at the quality of the chassis from the factory though, how well they are designed and how well they're made. I'll probably narrow it down to 2 or 3 and then try and view them at the factory to get a feeling for the quality
Any more help welcome.
FYI I currently reside in Derby so nat too far from MK or GB but car will be built in Glos
I'm leaning towards building an MK Indy with a bike engine, frankly fitting a car I have lovingly crafted with an engine that Ford designed badly in the first place and has been getting s
tter for 25 years fills me with dread.The Allied looked well priced at just £750 for a 750mc caged chassis.
Also as I want to go bare and lightweight I think the bike engine route is best.
The chassis with a roll cage all seem to fall between £800-£1000 although I am not 100% sure if the MK Indy R comes with a cage as standard, the pics suggest it does.
I'm going to buy a bare chassis and a bike and start from there I think, I'll try and buy just the few Sierra bits I need, my grandparents have had enough of having my cars outside there house, just a bike and car can stay in the garage I am currently preparing for the project
I really want to have a look at the quality of the chassis from the factory though, how well they are designed and how well they're made. I'll probably narrow it down to 2 or 3 and then try and view them at the factory to get a feeling for the quality
Any more help welcome.
FYI I currently reside in Derby so nat too far from MK or GB but car will be built in Glos
Have a look at the Haynes Roadster, you can build it from scratch or buy various stages from various suppliers. More info here
http://www.haynes.co.uk/forums/index.php
and here
http://www.haynes.co.uk/press/Releases_HTML/070315...
http://www.haynes.co.uk/forums/index.php
and here
http://www.haynes.co.uk/press/Releases_HTML/070315...
Tim.C said:
I'm not too sure about the MK Indy-R cage issue. If you are going BEC though, even if you go to someone like Allied for the basic chassis, do not have a steel welded floor. Riveted aluminium will do the job just fine.
I was planning on balsa wood, thats what we used for all the race car floors we built.I have been trying to get some info on the Mac#1 but there doesn't seem to be much about but they seem to specialise in bike engine applications. Also my e-mail to MK Indy has been ignored which has annoyed me greatly.
Everyone who I have spoken to who knows Kit Cars has warned me off Robin Hoods so they are off the list and I ahve read some bad reviews of Tigers as well.
This is getting way to complicated.
At least I have narrowed the bike decision down to (hopefully) a Suzuki GSX-R1000 from the early 90's, they have good power, seem fairly simple and they can be bought for £600-£900ish
If you want serious 7'esqe looks then the GBS Zero with a 2003 injected R1 would be a good combo. But as stated previous a lot is not known yet ( on here anyway ) about their handling, I am sure Locostbuilders eill give you the lowdown on their quality . But certinly do not confuse the GBS car with previous Robin Hoods.... Regarding the GBS chassis, some friends of mine who know far more than me think it's not that different to many similar locost designs, but I have hard the bodywork requires dome fettling. But then being aluminium it is more true to a real Caterham, and I have to glance twice to visually tell the difference.
Just a word about MK email,
They are 3 guys in overhauls unfortunately the pc takes a back seat, no office staff, if there was they would have to be paid for by someone ?
Most Saturday mornings there are several owners up there for a tyre kicking session all of whom would be happy to take you out for a spin.
They are 3 guys in overhauls unfortunately the pc takes a back seat, no office staff, if there was they would have to be paid for by someone ?
Most Saturday mornings there are several owners up there for a tyre kicking session all of whom would be happy to take you out for a spin.
Jon Ison said:
Just a word about MK email,
They are 3 guys in overhauls unfortunately the pc takes a back seat, no office staff, if there was they would have to be paid for by someone ?
Most Saturday mornings there are several owners up there for a tyre kicking session all of whom would be happy to take you out for a spin.
Hmmm that maybe the case but Mac#1 seem to have even less IT(they have a single webpage) and they replied to my e-mail 1st thing this morning and invited me to the factory, this is customer service that I like and appreciate.They are 3 guys in overhauls unfortunately the pc takes a back seat, no office staff, if there was they would have to be paid for by someone ?
Most Saturday mornings there are several owners up there for a tyre kicking session all of whom would be happy to take you out for a spin.
Insincere Dave said:
Jon Ison said:
Just a word about MK email,
They are 3 guys in overhauls unfortunately the pc takes a back seat, no office staff, if there was they would have to be paid for by someone ?
Most Saturday mornings there are several owners up there for a tyre kicking session all of whom would be happy to take you out for a spin.
Hmmm that maybe the case but Mac#1 seem to have even less IT(they have a single webpage) and they replied to my e-mail 1st thing this morning and invited me to the factory, this is customer service that I like and appreciate.They are 3 guys in overhauls unfortunately the pc takes a back seat, no office staff, if there was they would have to be paid for by someone ?
Most Saturday mornings there are several owners up there for a tyre kicking session all of whom would be happy to take you out for a spin.
Insincere Dave said:
Jon Ison said:
Just a word about MK email,
They are 3 guys in overhauls unfortunately the pc takes a back seat, no office staff, if there was they would have to be paid for by someone ?
Most Saturday mornings there are several owners up there for a tyre kicking session all of whom would be happy to take you out for a spin.
Hmmm that maybe the case but Mac#1 seem to have even less IT(they have a single webpage) and they replied to my e-mail 1st thing this morning and invited me to the factory, this is customer service that I like and appreciate.They are 3 guys in overhauls unfortunately the pc takes a back seat, no office staff, if there was they would have to be paid for by someone ?
Most Saturday mornings there are several owners up there for a tyre kicking session all of whom would be happy to take you out for a spin.
Colin and mark are top.top lads to deal with.
First class customer service pal
h4muf said:
Insincere Dave said:
Jon Ison said:
Just a word about MK email,
They are 3 guys in overhauls unfortunately the pc takes a back seat, no office staff, if there was they would have to be paid for by someone ?
Most Saturday mornings there are several owners up there for a tyre kicking session all of whom would be happy to take you out for a spin.
Hmmm that maybe the case but Mac#1 seem to have even less IT(they have a single webpage) and they replied to my e-mail 1st thing this morning and invited me to the factory, this is customer service that I like and appreciate.They are 3 guys in overhauls unfortunately the pc takes a back seat, no office staff, if there was they would have to be paid for by someone ?
Most Saturday mornings there are several owners up there for a tyre kicking session all of whom would be happy to take you out for a spin.
Colin and mark are top.top lads to deal with.
First class customer service pal
I really want to design and make my own uprights (again) and start planning the build once I have something to work with.
Insincere Dave said:
[
I really want to design and make my own uprights (again) and start planning the build once I have something to work with.
If you are going to make your own uprights (and therefore, presumably, design your own suspension) why don't you make your own chassis? The Haynes roadster would be a good starting point, just change what you need to in order to get the suspension brackets in the right place for your design.I really want to design and make my own uprights (again) and start planning the build once I have something to work with.
singlecoil said:
Insincere Dave said:
[
I really want to design and make my own uprights (again) and start planning the build once I have something to work with.
If you are going to make your own uprights (and therefore, presumably, design your own suspension) why don't you make your own chassis? The Haynes roadster would be a good starting point, just change what you need to in order to get the suspension brackets in the right place for your design.I really want to design and make my own uprights (again) and start planning the build once I have something to work with.
I want to start with a decent supplied chassis that I can then modify to take the smaller parts that I design and can make. And use off the shelf parts for the rest. If I use a supplied chassis I can always get it built and running with standard bits and then go back and modify/re-design anything that I want to improve.
The other problem with designing my own chassis is that I will then need bodywork to fit, this would be my nightmare job.
Just to add another car (chassis) to your thought process, do you know of the Aries Motorsport car (formerly known as Stuart Taylor Motorsport).
It's not the most amazing chassis in the world, but it's a damn good start, has the right dimensions (unlike the haynes chassis suggested above) for a track car, and is quite light.
A full cage is a great safety device, but it's not a must for all people, maybe an asymetric roll bar with rear stay and petty strut (frontward facing "stay") would be enough for you (it would for me, but not others!)?
Answering an email in this industry is very commendable, but most people would find it easier to answer an email if they weren't busy, which may tell you something, not that I'm trying to take anything away from MAC1...
There's a (relatively) new company called Road Runner Racing that have developed a high end, but well priced chassis/car. They have experience in other sorted cars and are just now developing a bike engined variant. The owner's name is Kev and he is a thoroughly pleasant guy to chat with (not pushy, just dead enthusiastic!).
If you are able to get yourself to Oulton for the 4th August you'll see one of their cars pushing good times round there, and prob meet Kev too!
ATB
Steve
It's not the most amazing chassis in the world, but it's a damn good start, has the right dimensions (unlike the haynes chassis suggested above) for a track car, and is quite light.
A full cage is a great safety device, but it's not a must for all people, maybe an asymetric roll bar with rear stay and petty strut (frontward facing "stay") would be enough for you (it would for me, but not others!)?
Answering an email in this industry is very commendable, but most people would find it easier to answer an email if they weren't busy, which may tell you something, not that I'm trying to take anything away from MAC1...
There's a (relatively) new company called Road Runner Racing that have developed a high end, but well priced chassis/car. They have experience in other sorted cars and are just now developing a bike engined variant. The owner's name is Kev and he is a thoroughly pleasant guy to chat with (not pushy, just dead enthusiastic!).
If you are able to get yourself to Oulton for the 4th August you'll see one of their cars pushing good times round there, and prob meet Kev too!
ATB
Steve
Steve Hignett said:
Just to add another car (chassis) to your thought process, do you know of the Aries Motorsport car (formerly known as Stuart Taylor Motorsport).
It's not the most amazing chassis in the world, but it's a damn good start, has the right dimensions (unlike the haynes chassis suggested above) for a track car, and is quite light.
A full cage is a great safety device, but it's not a must for all people, maybe an asymetric roll bar with rear stay and petty strut (frontward facing "stay") would be enough for you (it would for me, but not others!)?
Answering an email in this industry is very commendable, but most people would find it easier to answer an email if they weren't busy, which may tell you something, not that I'm trying to take anything away from MAC1...
There's a (relatively) new company called Road Runner Racing that have developed a high end, but well priced chassis/car. They have experience in other sorted cars and are just now developing a bike engined variant. The owner's name is Kev and he is a thoroughly pleasant guy to chat with (not pushy, just dead enthusiastic!).
If you are able to get yourself to Oulton for the 4th August you'll see one of their cars pushing good times round there, and prob meet Kev too!
ATB
Steve
Cheers Steve, both of those opetions are very interesting, the Aries motosport car is very cheap and they are only 7 miles from my house. And the Road Runner looks like a much nicer piece of engineering than most of the other 7 type car.It's not the most amazing chassis in the world, but it's a damn good start, has the right dimensions (unlike the haynes chassis suggested above) for a track car, and is quite light.
A full cage is a great safety device, but it's not a must for all people, maybe an asymetric roll bar with rear stay and petty strut (frontward facing "stay") would be enough for you (it would for me, but not others!)?
Answering an email in this industry is very commendable, but most people would find it easier to answer an email if they weren't busy, which may tell you something, not that I'm trying to take anything away from MAC1...
There's a (relatively) new company called Road Runner Racing that have developed a high end, but well priced chassis/car. They have experience in other sorted cars and are just now developing a bike engined variant. The owner's name is Kev and he is a thoroughly pleasant guy to chat with (not pushy, just dead enthusiastic!).
If you are able to get yourself to Oulton for the 4th August you'll see one of their cars pushing good times round there, and prob meet Kev too!
ATB
Steve
A spanner has now been thrown in the works by the thought that instead of spending £600-£900 on a chassis I could spend that money on a new Tig welder, bench, jigs and material and make my own chasis from scratch. I found a CAD file of a Locost chassis online so now have a start base to design my own chasssi as well.
Far too many options now.
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