Christian Horner's days numbered
Discussion
As Red Bull big boss DM has now stated that his priority is to win the WC irrespecive of the nationality of the driver, and, given all the fun and games this season with some very iffy decisions by the team (boss?), and, RBR's aparrent desire to let the world championship slip though their fingers despite having the best car driven by 2 of the best drivers out there, where does this leave Christian Horner? He is after all, only another employee of Red Bull, and quite simply doesn't really seem to be cutting it as a savvy team boss. How much longer before we see a night of the long knives down at team RBR?
zac510 said:
How do you know that the task of the team boss is not made easier now that the big boss has spoken?
We don't. But it has looked very much like the tail has been wagging the dog and CH has not been leading from the front with a firm hand. Could you honestly say you would have seen these shenanigans in a team under Jean Todt/Ron Dennis/Ross Braun?Balls would have been squeezed, interviews on the carpet with the finger wagging and NO MORE! Would have been the order of the day.
Since RBR seem to be shooting themselves in the foot (or as many feet as there are within the team!) at every turn, you're probably right.
There is a very good chance that for the second year in a row RBR will have what is acknowledged as the fastest car of the year and still not win either WC. From the RB Corporate point of view that has to be an epic fail.
There is a very good chance that for the second year in a row RBR will have what is acknowledged as the fastest car of the year and still not win either WC. From the RB Corporate point of view that has to be an epic fail.
I hate to compare this to football, but I will. 
If a premier team had the best players by a fair degree but failed to win any titles, how long do you think the manager would last? Not long i'd say.
I think Horner is probably quite good (though I still think he's the Tony Blair of F1) but i'm sure feathers are starting to rustle with their lack of success.
If a premier team had the best players by a fair degree but failed to win any titles, how long do you think the manager would last? Not long i'd say.I think Horner is probably quite good (though I still think he's the Tony Blair of F1) but i'm sure feathers are starting to rustle with their lack of success.
LongQ said:
Interesting comment.Horner is under pressure but then every manager is. Red Bull Racing does seem to have problems. It has the fastest car on the grid and two very good drivers. Possibly not class of the field but near enough. Their points do not reflect their potential.
Red Bull themselves have a reputation of not being benign sponsors, just after free booze in the hospitality tent.
A difficult time, not helped by the performance of Webber nor the reliability issues.
Horner might be in the frame but then this would not be the time to replace the manager.
Sacking the simulator specialist without reference to the F1 team is rather silly. Not a good idea on a number of levels.
There is a joke in rugby that the only people who can score an own goal are the selectors. This looks like a case where people don't know their place. Whilst I agree with Saward that the person who pays the piper calls the tune, all they should do is supply the music. They shouldn't pluck the instrument.
Too much plucking going on at RBR.
Derek Smith said:
Whilst I agree with Saward that the person who pays the piper calls the tune, all they should do is supply the music. They shouldn't pluck the instrument.
Too much plucking going on at RBR.
I think you may have, perhaps unintentionally(?) created a great metaphor for the problem. Best to leave the piper to pipe - to dive in and start plucking the pipes is unlikely to get anyone out of their seats and dancing. (Well, actually I suppose in this case it may have got someone out of a seat .... that's the problem with trying to deal with metaphors in web forum posts....)Too much plucking going on at RBR.
Edited by LongQ on Thursday 22 July 23:28
From what I read, RB need to get rid of Marko and leave CH to get on with it. Most of the controversy surrounding the team seems to have his name associated with it. I think CH has been left holding the baby a couple of times due to things HM has said or done.
Edited for horrendous speeling mistak!
Edited for horrendous speeling mistak!
Edited by Rollcage on Thursday 22 July 08:33
Rollcage said:
From what I read, RB need to get rid of Marko and leave CH to get on with it. Most of the controversy surrounding the team seams to have his name associated with it. I think CH has been left holding the baby a couple of times due to things HM has said or done.
+1HM seems to confuse the running of an F1 team with the driver development / marketing side. The primary aim of an F1 team has to be to win both championships, or at the very least the drivers championship (which I suspect has more marketing cachet for Red Bull). If you try and manipulate things and favour one driver more than another, particularly when your favoured driver doesn't seem to be quite delivering as he should be, then the chances are you're going to do more damage than good.
By all accounts he's very divisive and more than a few people have fallen foul of his opinions about their ability in a Red Bull sponsored car.
I think he probably resents having his driving career cut short, and may have an unrealistic view of his ability to judge other peoples' skills in a car.
If you look at Horner's career as team owner I'd hazard a guess that if there are problems, it's not him at the root of them, per se.
It took a while, but he dragged Arden into being a formidable F3000 team and his record at Red Bull is hardly shabby, either.
If anything was going to compromise Horner it would be having a team owner above him who ultimately holds the decisions.
It took a while, but he dragged Arden into being a formidable F3000 team and his record at Red Bull is hardly shabby, either.
If anything was going to compromise Horner it would be having a team owner above him who ultimately holds the decisions.
Make up your minds guys.A little birdie told me that Marky mark, Horny and Newey were singing Kareoke together after the BGP. So whatever problem the team has, it doesn't seem to be within that camp. A certain person already mentioned in this thread has also been credited with the "wing swap".
An interesting situation if ever there was one.
An interesting situation if ever there was one.
Bedazzled said:
Horner seems like a good team manager to me, I think you're misreading him. RD had his fair share of problems at McLaren keeping his drivers happy, too. Helmut Marko is the problem IMHO, he comes across as an evil henchman - every company has them sadly.
But Ron had them winning Sacking the driver that's doing the bulk of the development work is a bit stupid. But then, it doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Red Bull has a habit of dropping drivers from it's 'driver development programme' on a complete whim and not usually making any sense in doing so.
There had been a few incredibly good drivers just dropped at the end of the season for no real reason. Some of them have done well in what they've been racing in too. There's no real 'staircase' structure to it.
There had been a few incredibly good drivers just dropped at the end of the season for no real reason. Some of them have done well in what they've been racing in too. There's no real 'staircase' structure to it.
Agree that it's Helmut Marko not Horner, I spoke with Brendon (The guy who just left as test driver) and he said Helmut is trying to take over, ignored all the development and time Brendon spent in the simulator, just to try and impress The big boss. He also said that the pressure being put on the team now was massive, very different to even this time last year.
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