Shoplifters in Lincolnshire, have a field day!
Discussion
The lincolnshire Police have told stores not to bother getting in touch with the cops to deal with petty shop lifting. They are supposed to just take the shoplifters details and keep a record of them 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1296836/Do...
You couldn't make it up!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1296836/Do...
You couldn't make it up!
From a Police perspective (front-line, deal with shoplifters day in day out):
Imagine turning up to a job when you are short-staffed, jobs piling up (because of a lack of funding/funding cuts/leave/illness/training etc) which means you barely get time for a pee let alone a break. You turn up to the store to be told the shoplifter has been follwed around the store for 10 minutes by a security guard or on CCTV, then stopped as they left the store. All very well for the staff, but they have known for the 10 minutes they follow that person that they are going to steal. Why not approach them, tellthem you know their game, kick them out and ban them?
If i arrest someone for shoplifting, i have to transport them to custody, book them in, search them, return to store for CCTV and complaint statement, back to custody, interview them, charge them, then complete a court file. Total time usually 2hrs. Per job. If not English-speaking, add another hour or two waiting for interpreters to turn up, longer interview times etc etc.
Some stores i work around openly boast about how many shoplifters they catch. They are very good, however, they take great delight in tying up every officer on a shift with a shoplifter. With 6 offiers on our shift (if lucky, was 4 today), i have seen it whereby they are all in interview, getting statements or arresting shoplifters, from one store. While this is happening, jobs are mouning up, victims are not being visited, more serious crimes not investigated, and there is no oportunity to target kown nominals, such as drug dealers.
Might sound daft, but the scheme has dramatically reduced workloads for theft of a bottle of cider, or theft of cheese or gammon. This gives me more time to deal with the other million and one type of jobs i get sent to each day.
Imagine turning up to a job when you are short-staffed, jobs piling up (because of a lack of funding/funding cuts/leave/illness/training etc) which means you barely get time for a pee let alone a break. You turn up to the store to be told the shoplifter has been follwed around the store for 10 minutes by a security guard or on CCTV, then stopped as they left the store. All very well for the staff, but they have known for the 10 minutes they follow that person that they are going to steal. Why not approach them, tellthem you know their game, kick them out and ban them?
If i arrest someone for shoplifting, i have to transport them to custody, book them in, search them, return to store for CCTV and complaint statement, back to custody, interview them, charge them, then complete a court file. Total time usually 2hrs. Per job. If not English-speaking, add another hour or two waiting for interpreters to turn up, longer interview times etc etc.
Some stores i work around openly boast about how many shoplifters they catch. They are very good, however, they take great delight in tying up every officer on a shift with a shoplifter. With 6 offiers on our shift (if lucky, was 4 today), i have seen it whereby they are all in interview, getting statements or arresting shoplifters, from one store. While this is happening, jobs are mouning up, victims are not being visited, more serious crimes not investigated, and there is no oportunity to target kown nominals, such as drug dealers.
Might sound daft, but the scheme has dramatically reduced workloads for theft of a bottle of cider, or theft of cheese or gammon. This gives me more time to deal with the other million and one type of jobs i get sent to each day.
gti tim said:
Arresting petty criminals is very tiresome.
And yet, if a shopkeeper were to use reasonable force to apprehend said scrote and recover stolen goods, plod would likely be out in force to investigate any allegations of assault.You cannot have it both ways: if the police cannot or will not protect the people, the people must be entitled to protect themselves.
Same could be said for a lot of crimes
One of those police shows the other night. Kid pulled over with an amount of weed on him
2 Bike Cops
1 Car
1 Van with Dog
End result = £60 find
But I am really uneasy about the crimes being dealt with on a cost basis becuase where does the line get drawn?
One of those police shows the other night. Kid pulled over with an amount of weed on him
2 Bike Cops
1 Car
1 Van with Dog
End result = £60 find
But I am really uneasy about the crimes being dealt with on a cost basis becuase where does the line get drawn?
ofcorsa said:
But I am really uneasy about the crimes being dealt with on a cost basis becuase where does the line get drawn?
Camera's that take your picture and send you a fine is obviously on the 'reasonable' side of the line. It will be interesting to see where it all ends up. I foresee a time where i will be answerable to a police robot.gti tim said:
From a Police perspective (front-line, deal with shoplifters day in day out):
Might sound daft, but the scheme has dramatically reduced workloads for theft of a bottle of cider, or theft of cheese or gammon. This gives me more time to deal with the other million and one type of jobs i get sent to each day.
This is very true but surely it would of been best to keep it quiet rather than publicising it. Might sound daft, but the scheme has dramatically reduced workloads for theft of a bottle of cider, or theft of cheese or gammon. This gives me more time to deal with the other million and one type of jobs i get sent to each day.
Now the shoflifters know they will get away with it!
Hedders said:
ofcorsa said:
But I am really uneasy about the crimes being dealt with on a cost basis becuase where does the line get drawn?
Camera's that take your picture and send you a fine is obviously on the 'reasonable' side of the line. It will be interesting to see where it all ends up. I foresee a time where i will be answerable to a police robot.
I could almost see this working.
Tell the stores to take photos of all offenders. When a face starts appearing regularly, do some police work to find out who they are, arrest them and place them before a court who will hand down proper deterrent sentences.
As it stands, it's just another level of bureaucracy which will allow criminals more freedom.
Instead of:
shoplift > arrested > charged > court > punishment
it will be along the lines of:
shoplift > name in book > shoplift > name in book > shoplift > name in book > visit by PCSO telling them shoplifting is a crime and to stop it > shoplift > name in book > ASBO warning them that shoplifting is unacceptable > shoplift > name in book > Shoplifting Fixed Penalty Notice > Ignored > shoplift > name in book > arrested > court > fine > shoplift (to pay fine)
Tell the stores to take photos of all offenders. When a face starts appearing regularly, do some police work to find out who they are, arrest them and place them before a court who will hand down proper deterrent sentences.
As it stands, it's just another level of bureaucracy which will allow criminals more freedom.
Instead of:
shoplift > arrested > charged > court > punishment
it will be along the lines of:
shoplift > name in book > shoplift > name in book > shoplift > name in book > visit by PCSO telling them shoplifting is a crime and to stop it > shoplift > name in book > ASBO warning them that shoplifting is unacceptable > shoplift > name in book > Shoplifting Fixed Penalty Notice > Ignored > shoplift > name in book > arrested > court > fine > shoplift (to pay fine)
Ever tried apprehending a crack head carrying a concealed knife and getting name addy etc.....I have,and its touch and go .
Wrestling him to the floor arm up back sitting on him for 20 minutes until plod turn up.
Oh and his mates trying to kick in the now locked front door,whilst you plead for help on the phone.
Not good at all.
Wrestling him to the floor arm up back sitting on him for 20 minutes until plod turn up.
Oh and his mates trying to kick in the now locked front door,whilst you plead for help on the phone.
Not good at all.
gti tim said:
Might sound daft, but the scheme has dramatically reduced workloads for theft of a bottle of cider, or theft of cheese or gammon. This gives me more time to deal with the other million and one type of jobs i get sent to each day.
Yes that does sound daft tbh when they can find enough time to hide in bushes pointing cameras at cars though...very strange that.People doing burglaries etc generally start their life of crime at the petty level nicking small items from shops etc. Nipping it in the bud at the lower level and making them pay for their crime may direct the scroat in a different direction in life.
Pointing a camera at a law abiding granny doing 35 in a 30 just alienates you from the public where the respect for the police will be all but eventually be lost.
Edited by Westy Pre-Lit on Friday 23 July 08:19
gti tim said:
All very well for the staff, but they have known for the 10 minutes they follow that person that they are going to steal. Why not approach them, tell them you know their game, kick them out and ban them?.
What an absolute load of crap, I'm sorry Tim, but I can't believe that a Police Officer is advising that. If the stores started telling people 'I know your game' before they've even stolen anything & then try to kick them out as well, how long do you think it will be before the store security or managers get accused of discrimination & defamation of character? Not to mention the issues that will arise if the so called shoplifter happens to be of the ethnic minority. I'm sure an officer will around in double time to investigate that!The Police even used to tell stores that you can't accuse anyone of theft until they have left the store with the unpaid items.
I'm not having a pop at the BiB on the beat here, the problem is lack of staffing & red tape, until that's sorted out then petty crime will always be a major issue.
gti tim said:
From a Police perspective (front-line, deal with shoplifters day in day out):
If i arrest someone for shoplifting, i have to transport them to custody, book them in, search them, return to store for CCTV and complaint statement, back to custody, interview them, charge them, then complete a court file. Total time usually 2hrs. Per job. If not English-speaking, add another hour or two waiting for interpreters to turn up, longer interview times etc etc.
Some stores i work around openly boast about how many shoplifters they catch. They are very good, however, they take great delight in tying up every officer on a shift with a shoplifter. With 6 offiers on our shift (if lucky, was 4 today), i have seen it whereby they are all in interview, getting statements or arresting shoplifters, from one store. While this is happening, jobs are mouning up, victims are not being visited, more serious crimes not investigated, and there is no oportunity to target kown nominals, such as drug dealers.
That sounds like a strong argument for reducing police bureaucracy, particularly if it is getting in the way of crime fighting. If i arrest someone for shoplifting, i have to transport them to custody, book them in, search them, return to store for CCTV and complaint statement, back to custody, interview them, charge them, then complete a court file. Total time usually 2hrs. Per job. If not English-speaking, add another hour or two waiting for interpreters to turn up, longer interview times etc etc.
Some stores i work around openly boast about how many shoplifters they catch. They are very good, however, they take great delight in tying up every officer on a shift with a shoplifter. With 6 offiers on our shift (if lucky, was 4 today), i have seen it whereby they are all in interview, getting statements or arresting shoplifters, from one store. While this is happening, jobs are mouning up, victims are not being visited, more serious crimes not investigated, and there is no oportunity to target kown nominals, such as drug dealers.
It most certainly is NOT an argument for giving up on crime fighting.
Oli.
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