Towing length law??

[tomroche]

Hi,
does anyone know the law with regards to maximum length a vehicle is allowed to be in the uk?
Plans for next year are to tow a double car trailer (35ft) behind a converted double decker coach (40ft).
Coach is now a private hgv. Quick search has shown maximum of 18 meters, so I would be way too long?
But Im sure I have seen vehicles way longer than this (circus etc)
Anyone got any idea??

[cptsideways]

23ft

[tomroche]

cptsideways said:

23ft

23ft?

[cptsideways]

Ahh sorry, 23ft is longest trailer length you are allowed, behind the other vehicle that is.

[jagracer]

60ft or 18M iirc. Circus or fairground people get special dispensation and can tow more than one trailer and are exempt from the London emission zone charges

cptsideways said:

Ahh sorry, 23ft is longest trailer length you are allowed, behind the other vehicle that is.

That's for vehicles with a gross mass of under 3500kg.

Edited by jagracer on Friday 23 July 20:45

[tomroche]

jagracer said:

60ft or 18M iirc. Circus or fairground people get special dispensation and can tow more than one trailer and are exempt from the London emission zone charges

cptsideways said:

Ahh sorry, 23ft is longest trailer length you are allowed, behind the other vehicle that is.

That's for vehicles with a gross mass of under 3500kg.

Edited by jagracer on Friday 23 July 20:45

any idea how to get special dispensation? Would not be on the road that often and not commercial...

Edited by tomroche on Saturday 24th July 10:11

[jagracer]

tomroche said:

jagracer said:

60ft or 18M iirc. Circus or fairground people get special dispensation and can tow more than one trailer and are exempt from the London emission zone charges

cptsideways said:

Ahh sorry, 23ft is longest trailer length you are allowed, behind the other vehicle that is.

That's for vehicles with a gross mass of under 3500kg.

Edited by jagracer on Friday 23 July 20:45

any idea how to get special dispensation? Would not be on the road that often and not commercial...

Edited by tomroche on Saturday 24th July 10:11

You wont get it unless you can prove you are a circus or fairground showman. You also need to be careful of O licence and tacho laws even though you believe you are running it as a private HGV, there are threads on here about it and it is a very grey area.

Edited by jagracer on Saturday 24th July 10:42

[Transam]

if your coach is 40ft then you only have 20ft to play with as a trailer length.

circus and fairgrounds run under a showmans dispensention though they can only run up to a max of 25 metres or something like that but youll never get permission to run past 18 metres especially with a private hgv.

what are you towing the cars to and from?

[Ozzie Osmond]

jagracer said:

You wont get it unless you can prove you are a circus or fairground showman. You also need to be careful of O licence and tacho laws even though you believe you are running it as a private HGV, there are threads on here about it and it is a very grey area.

Yes, proceed with caution.

I don't know all the detail but you may need to figure out what sort of braking system is the minimum standard allowed. Especially whether the trailer brakes must be actuated directly drom the driver's brake pedal (and/or whether a brake controller is needed). Artics and rigids with trailers all work this way.

[tomroche]

Transam said:

if your coach is 40ft then you only have 20ft to play with as a trailer length.

circus and fairgrounds run under a showmans dispensention though they can only run up to a max of 25 metres or something like that but youll never get permission to run past 18 metres especially with a private hgv.

what are you towing the cars to and from?

towing cars to and from race tracks.

Well that's a problem, maybe have to look at a stacker trailer but they are expensive!!

Thanks for the info guys but not what I wanted to hear, I had been told that I would be ok up to around 75ft under some new regulation?...

[Transam]

tomroche said:

Transam said:

if your coach is 40ft then you only have 20ft to play with as a trailer length.

circus and fairgrounds run under a showmans dispensention though they can only run up to a max of 25 metres or something like that but youll never get permission to run past 18 metres especially with a private hgv.

what are you towing the cars to and from?

towing cars to and from race tracks.

Well that's a problem, maybe have to look at a stacker trailer but they are expensive!!

Thanks for the info guys but not what I wanted to hear, I had been told that I would be ok up to around 75ft under some new regulation?...

see this may be your problem because this may come under hire and reward, are you competing and is there a chance you could win any money?

also why use a bus?

[guru_1071]

if your towing race cars you have to be careful as the vosa will claim that your doing it for 'hire and reward' and you will need an operators licence & tachograph

they are unable to see the grey area between private hgvs towing your own race cars and people running recovery businesses

[tomroche]

Transam said:

tomroche said:

Transam said:

if your coach is 40ft then you only have 20ft to play with as a trailer length.

circus and fairgrounds run under a showmans dispensention though they can only run up to a max of 25 metres or something like that but youll never get permission to run past 18 metres especially with a private hgv.

what are you towing the cars to and from?

towing cars to and from race tracks.

Well that's a problem, maybe have to look at a stacker trailer but they are expensive!!

Thanks for the info guys but not what I wanted to hear, I had been told that I would be ok up to around 75ft under some new regulation?...

see this may be your problem because this may come under hire and reward, are you competing and is there a chance you could win any money?

also why use a bus?

will have the standard 'not for hire or reward' stickers in place if that makes a difference?

The bus is converted to sleep 9 people, kitchen and lots of room for spares, plus big awnings off the side so ideal for the team really. Taxed private hgv, changed logbook to motorhome

[Transam]

tomroche said:

Transam said:

tomroche said:

Transam said:

if your coach is 40ft then you only have 20ft to play with as a trailer length.

circus and fairgrounds run under a showmans dispensention though they can only run up to a max of 25 metres or something like that but youll never get permission to run past 18 metres especially with a private hgv.

what are you towing the cars to and from?

towing cars to and from race tracks.

Well that's a problem, maybe have to look at a stacker trailer but they are expensive!!

Thanks for the info guys but not what I wanted to hear, I had been told that I would be ok up to around 75ft under some new regulation?...

see this may be your problem because this may come under hire and reward, are you competing and is there a chance you could win any money?

also why use a bus?

will have the standard 'not for hire or reward' stickers in place if that makes a difference?

The bus is converted to sleep 9 people, kitchen and lots of room for spares, plus big awnings off the side so ideal for the team really. Taxed private hgv, changed logbook to motorhome

those stickers wont do one bit of difference if you get stopped by a jumped up power hungry vosa officer, there is alot of nonsense withint vosa and some of the laws.

so how can it be a private hgv if its a motorhome in the logbook?

[Roo]

Towed behind LGV is a maximum of 12m in length with the overall length not exceeding 18.75m. Towing behind HGV is a different matter.

Morning Tom.

[Jonny_693]

jagracer said:

60ft or 18M iirc. Circus or fairground people get special dispensation and can tow more than one trailer and are exempt from the London emission zone charges

How the hell does that work, one rule for one and all that.

[tomroche]

Transam said:

those stickers wont do one bit of difference if you get stopped by a jumped up power hungry vosa officer, there is alot of nonsense withint vosa and some of the laws.

so how can it be a private hgv if its a motorhome in the logbook?

but vosa officers are normally such friendly, helpful chaps

I think it is too heavy to be taxed as a motorhome or something? Everyone I spoke to has a different view...

Can't imagine would have much of a problem with hire or reward, every transporter I've ever seen seems to have that displayed. Maybe I will when 80ft long mind

[Transam]

Jonny_693 said:

jagracer said:

60ft or 18M iirc. Circus or fairground people get special dispensation and can tow more than one trailer and are exempt from the London emission zone charges

How the hell does that work, one rule for one and all that.

its always been that way.

though for a proper artic and trailer the length is only 16.5m, a drawbar is 18m.

[marshal_alan]

fooking 'ell mate that is one big rig you are proposing, i wouldnt fancy your chances getting it into many tracks considering most have 10 miles of twisty B roads between the track and motorway. is there no way you could put 1 car in the spares/workshop area and tow the other on a standard trailer. have seen that done quite a lot with the stock car boys also IIRC Ginetta racer Colin White's transporter has that setup

[tubbystu]

DFT relevant website page about overall length

DFT website said:

Dimensions

If the towing vehicle has a permissible gross weight in excess of 3.5 tonnes the maximum width and length of the trailer are 2.55 metres and 12 metres respectively. If however the gross weight of the towing vehicle is 3.5 tonnes or less then the maximum permissible width and length are 2.55 metres and 7 metres respectively. In both cases the overall length of the towing vehicle and trailer must not exceed either 18m or 18.75m depending on the type of towing vehicle.

and more about towing with buses and details of what a trailer is

DFT - trailers a brief guide said:

The C&U Regulations do not set out specific requirements for Showman’s vehicles towing more than one trailer. However, derogation is provided in regulation 7 for a showman’s vehicle that is drawing one trailer. Where a ‘showmen’s vehicle’ (as defined in the Vehicles Excise Act 1971) is drawing a trailer “used primarily as living accommodation by one or more persons and is not also used for the carriage of goods or burden which is not needed for the purpose of such residence in the vehicle”, such a combination is permitted to have an overall length of 22m.

Makes it pretty clear.

If you decide to run the bus and trailer combo you really should get something in writing from your regional traffic commissioner ( website )to confirm in his eyes it is a legal road train otherwise when you get pulled you will be fined, impounded, ticketed, weigh-bridged and anything else they can throw at you.

Have you considered your routing and turning circle requirements with the bus & trailer combo ?

And if your bus carries more than 8 + driver then whatever you say, in the eyes of the law it is still a bus.

HTH