How optimistic are you about future performance motoring?

[adycav]

Having just polished off a bottle of wine (La Cuvee Mythique 2006 - half price from the Co-op, if anyone gives a toss) I feel the need for a poll.

At the moment it seems that many manufacturers seem intent on downsizing their engines due to the eco agenda, whilst upsizing the bloody cars that they put the engines in.

I see a future filled with massive, heavy billion-airbagged pedestrian-friendly ste all powered by 1.2 litre turbocharged engines and/or crap electric motors that can cover UP TO 7 MILES before a convenient 100000000000000000 hour charge gets them going again.

Am I wrong?

[Fartgalen]

Vipers run on ethanol (with a little retuning) no problem

[Matt UK]

'Big Power' is likely to start falling off the the map IMO.

But would be nice to see an increase in small, light weight cars with narrower wheels/tyres.

[kambites]

To my mind, environmentalism is the least of the problems that the performance car market is facing. The obsession with safety and useless toys is the big problem.

[Jasandjules]

kambites said:

To my mind, environmentalism is the least of the problems that the performance car market is facing. The obsession with safety and useless toys is the big problem.

I kind of agree. I like the idea of having things like traction control and ABS (as I do on the dog car) but only if I can switch them off if they are in the toy...

But future performance motoring, well, the acceleration of some electric cars is, well, electric.

In any event I don't like the way new cars are going, they are all rounding off and looking like they are morphing....

[pilchardthecat]

Fast cars will be just as fast as the recent ones on paper, but will be much less engaging. Eco measures are a compromise in almost all cases. I could be wrong, and the next bunch of M cars, with their turbos, will be a good weather guage IMO.

[Ten Ninety]

I'm a lot more optimistic than I was a few years ago when, to me at least, the whole green thing looked like it could snowball out of control and kill off everything we knew and loved. Whilst 'everyday' cars might continue to get ever-more sanitised, safe and boring, it seems that 'performance' cars are continuing just as loud, proud and mad as they've always been. They just use a bit less fuel doing it these days.

Perhaps there's more of a problem away from the top end fantasyland of GT2RSs and 599GTOs and in the realm of 'affordable performance' which does seem a bit bogged down with tiresome, overpowered, overweight hot hatches. There still doesn't seem to be enough going on in the lightweight-and-entertaining (rather than fast) sector which, surely, has got to be the future of fun for most of us?

[Mr Dave]

Cars and Bikes are getting faster now than they ever have been, the problem with performance cars is that they are getting too fast to be usuable in my opinion. Powerful electric cars will just make that even worse.

The Audi E-tron, Porsche 918 and the Merc SLS electric jobby and the proposed Toyota Electric LFA based car (Supra really) are all brilliant, very fast and electric.

I see very interesting times ahead. Although I cant help but think that electric motors will be capable of massive acceleration but will be boring, not good noises like a BMW V10 and no quirks in power delivery which makes things interesting.

Will probably be too good, which is boring.

[kiteless]

I remember a Clarkson programme some years ago where, at the end, he opined that the only "real" supercar left on sale (at the time) was the Lamborghini Diablo and that the future looked pretty bleak for the breed.

How wrong he was, considering the huge number of cars available today that make the Diablo look a bit tame.

But that's the thin end of the performance wedge, and as others have mentioned it's clear that everyday performance cars seem to be heading in the wrong direction: more weight, bigger dimensions, more needless kit, more airbaggery, bigger tyres etc etc. Sure, there's plenty of lightweight relatively cheap performance kit out there such as Caterhams / Ariels / Radicals and such, but they're not an everyday proposition.

It'd be nice to see manufacturers producing kit like modern-day Clio Williams and 205GTi's, but - for me - I can't see it happening.

[Pigeon]

The problem isn't the cars, it's traffic levels and legislation. Nothing kills a spirited drive like 15 dorises nose to tail behind a truck and a tt with a laser gun on the straight.

[MarJay]

kiteless said:

It'd be nice to see manufacturers producing kit like modern-day Clio Williams and 205GTi's, but - for me - I can't see it happening.

What about the Megane and Clio Renaultsport 192/insert number here sport cup type thingies? Reckon they are pretty light, not much kit and pretty focussed.

[EDLT]

It seems rather rosy from my pov, you can buy a good condition 15ish yeah old Jaguar XJR for around £5k and I don't see any reason why the same depreciation won't happen to the XFR. V8 S-types are falling into that price bracket already, and the R model isn't far behind..

There are going to be some very VERY fast bargain barges in the future.

[kiteless]

MarJay said:

kiteless said:

It'd be nice to see manufacturers producing kit like modern-day Clio Williams and 205GTi's, but - for me - I can't see it happening.

What about the Megane and Clio Renaultsport 192/insert number here sport cup type thingies? Reckon they are pretty light, not much kit and pretty focussed.

I take your point, but the ones you mention are only light in comparison to other current rivals. The 1.9 205GTi cracked 7.5 to sixty with no more than 130bhp due to lightness, ergo it handled well also (extravagantly if you weren't careful). A heavier car will need stiffer suspension as well, which is fine for the occasional trackday blat but - I suspect - is somewhat compromised for everyday use. The R26.R was a good example of lightness improving the car's character in as much as RenaultSport engineers could use softer suspension settings, but at the expense of 6-point harnesses, no radio, and a rollcage. A Clio Williams shows that delicate handling and good performance doesn't need such race-focussed thinking.

[sebhaque]

I'm looking forward to some of the newer sports cars - seems to be a focus towards lap times for the supercars. Hopefully some exotic material will
Be gracing our screens soon.

This sentenixenos written or
Demonstrate the iPhone keyboard.

^ sorry - iPhone keyboard is pissing me right off. It took me 6 attempts to eight this bloody sentence alone!

[The Black Flash]

I dare say that there will always be fast cars, in some form.
But we are already seeing the end of the v12s and v10s, which is a shame. The future does not seem as interesting as the recent past.

[EDLT]

The Black Flash said:

I dare say that there will always be fast cars, in some form.
But we are already seeing the end of the v12s and v10s, which is a shame. The future does not seem as interesting as the recent past.

Massive engines fell out of fashion during the fuel crisis, but they came back and they will again.

[carl_w]

Pigeon said:

The problem isn't the cars, it's traffic levels and legislation. Nothing kills a spirited drive like 15 dorises nose to tail behind a truck and a tt with a laser gun on the straight.

Ah yes, driving through Cambridgeshire this evening. Every time a decent-looking straight came up Tomtom announced "Mobile - 60". Didn't see any laser-toting cops, but it seems clear they position themselves to spoil the fun.

[williamp]

I'm not unduly worried.

You may remember what it was like in the mid 80s- magazines like fast car and performance car were worried about what life would be like with gutless, thirsty cars- the only result, unhappily of being forced to fit these things called "catalytic converters"....


This is what I believe will happen: there will be the option of battery cars, but unless you live in town or as a second shopping car, this tech is a dead end. In over 100 years, the range of battery vehicles has stayed the same. And therefore useless

Hybrids work well- either as a parralel hybrid, where the motor/engine powers each axle, or series, like BMW's idea of having the motor in the conventional gearbox (and thus allowing retro fit of hybrid systems without too much chassis hassle- change the gearbox, install batteries & computer brian etc and you're done.)

Be honest: in town, at 30mph, or in traffic. Do you really think "glad I'm driving my V8..." No. of course not. So you might as well have cheap electric power. Because it doesant matter to you, but matters a lot to some Cities who are pushing for zero polution vehciles within the city.

Out in the open road (and if you dont think they exist anymore, you live in the south east) you'll have the combustion engine to make progress same as always. More effrecient progress, probably lighter progress too (do you REALLY need electric mirrors and seats? How often do you change their settings?? etc etc)

Again, BMW are looking at carbon fibre impregnated fibregalss- very strong, light but not as expensive as pure carbon fibre. This could bring costs down, lightness and strength up etc- a win-win all round.

Ferrari, Porsche etc are all looking at this option: keep the thrill of driving on the open road. Keep the greens happy when in the Cities. The cars will be lighter, possibly with less toys, and greener in the Cities. But probably no slower. Indeed, Ferrari are talking about their system as "part time 4x4", which helps traction out of tight corners or in bad weather. The benefit of clean running in Cities is also a bonus (and think how loud they could make the cars- they could be silent in Cities, but could be as loud as fk in the open as "nobody would hear them"- just the sort of reasoning we love the Italisn car designers for)

Its certainly happening, in the same way that motoring has always been changing. It'll continue. Just a bit different. In the same way that motoring 10 years ago was different- nobody really had satnavs back then, or adaptive cruise control or bluetooth or...

[v8will]

I think there will be alot of Betamax v VHS type scenarios in the next 5-10 years.

The next 20 years will be very interesting

[Negative Creep]

Seems like a lot of car makers just don't have the guts to make sporty cars any longer (although they will happily release 8 different types of MPV). Where is the modern Capri, 200sx, MR2, Manta, Fiat Coupe etc?

It does eems car makers are stuck between a rock and a hard place in terms of design. On the one hand they're want to make things lighter to reduce emissions. On the other they're being told by the EU to add ever more moron aids and deisgn their cars to protect those too stupid to look before crossing the road. Hence everything is now a bloated blob with terrible visibility, no feel and beyond repair by the average home mechanic