London Cycle Hire Scheme starts today.
Discussion
So how long will it be before it's written off as a white elephant?
Teatime?
When all the bikes have been stolen?
When a critical mass of greenies gets run over by buses?
When all the bikes end up in one place, with none elsewhere?
When the cars break down that drive around monitoring the bike stations (yes, really, cars)?
About the end of October when it starts raining?
The scheme seems to be the illegitimate brainchild of a madman... oh wait a minute...
Manks
Teatime?
When all the bikes have been stolen?
When a critical mass of greenies gets run over by buses?
When all the bikes end up in one place, with none elsewhere?
When the cars break down that drive around monitoring the bike stations (yes, really, cars)?
About the end of October when it starts raining?
The scheme seems to be the illegitimate brainchild of a madman... oh wait a minute...
Manks
Edited by Manks on Friday 30th July 07:40
Saw this on the news this morning.
I hope it works, but I do share your scepticism. Think of what we already know about British public transport (essentially what it is) and then consider the chances of picking up a bike that's actually properly maintained with gears that shift, brakes that work and lights that glow.
The other big thing is cost or rather the lack of it. Okay, £45 is a lot cheaper than a half decent bike, but most people who live or work in central London can afford a proper commuter bike of their own. While the idea of tourists and occasional users hoping onto a bike may work in principal, I can see them either being too scared to do so (with good reason) or teetering up the wrong side of the nearest HGV with disastorous results. Bikes aren't that difficult to acquire or run if you're the sort of person who actively wants to cycle. What stops people is the traffic, the weather and the risks involved. They'll still be there with a TFL-branded plastic bike.
I would love to be proved wrong and I applaud Borris for actually going out and doing something (a most un-politician-like trait) but I'll stick with my own Kona for the time being.
I hope it works, but I do share your scepticism. Think of what we already know about British public transport (essentially what it is) and then consider the chances of picking up a bike that's actually properly maintained with gears that shift, brakes that work and lights that glow.
The other big thing is cost or rather the lack of it. Okay, £45 is a lot cheaper than a half decent bike, but most people who live or work in central London can afford a proper commuter bike of their own. While the idea of tourists and occasional users hoping onto a bike may work in principal, I can see them either being too scared to do so (with good reason) or teetering up the wrong side of the nearest HGV with disastorous results. Bikes aren't that difficult to acquire or run if you're the sort of person who actively wants to cycle. What stops people is the traffic, the weather and the risks involved. They'll still be there with a TFL-branded plastic bike.
I would love to be proved wrong and I applaud Borris for actually going out and doing something (a most un-politician-like trait) but I'll stick with my own Kona for the time being.
Chris71 said:
Saw this on the news this morning.
I hope it works, but I do share your scepticism. Think of what we already know about British public transport (essentially what it is) and then consider the chances of picking up a bike that's actually properly maintained with gears that shift, brakes that work and lights that glow.
The other big thing is cost or rather the lack of it. Okay, £45 is a lot cheaper than a half decent bike, but most people who live or work in central London can afford a proper commuter bike of their own. While the idea of tourists and occasional users hoping onto a bike may work in principal, I can see them either being too scared to do so (with good reason) or teetering up the wrong side of the nearest HGV with disastorous results. Bikes aren't that difficult to acquire or run if you're the sort of person who actively wants to cycle. What stops people is the traffic, the weather and the risks involved. They'll still be there with a TFL-branded plastic bike.
I would love to be proved wrong and I applaud Borris for actually going out and doing something (a most un-politician-like trait) but I'll stick with my own Kona for the time being.
I used to run a small scooter sales business once. I got the idea from central Europe when I used to holiday there. I used to see the large volumes of two-wheeled commuters and think, "this is the solution to Britain's transport chaos and furthermore once travel on two wheels has caught on we have the added opportunity of electric bikes!"I hope it works, but I do share your scepticism. Think of what we already know about British public transport (essentially what it is) and then consider the chances of picking up a bike that's actually properly maintained with gears that shift, brakes that work and lights that glow.
The other big thing is cost or rather the lack of it. Okay, £45 is a lot cheaper than a half decent bike, but most people who live or work in central London can afford a proper commuter bike of their own. While the idea of tourists and occasional users hoping onto a bike may work in principal, I can see them either being too scared to do so (with good reason) or teetering up the wrong side of the nearest HGV with disastorous results. Bikes aren't that difficult to acquire or run if you're the sort of person who actively wants to cycle. What stops people is the traffic, the weather and the risks involved. They'll still be there with a TFL-branded plastic bike.
I would love to be proved wrong and I applaud Borris for actually going out and doing something (a most un-politician-like trait) but I'll stick with my own Kona for the time being.
Except I overlooked the weather.
Our climate is probably the single biggest reason why Boris Bikes won't take off. Cycling in London is a rubbish enough experience on a fine day, but when it's pissistently raining it's hell on earth. Then of course there's what to do with one's wet weather gear.
No, in my humble opinion bikes in the UK have a use for under 16s and as leisure vehicles. They aren't transport for the masses.
However, I see an opportunity for petrolheads and greenies to unite. If the former continue to drive the most powerful cars possible, we might eventually obtain a climate more suited to use of the bicylce.
Well if you're going to cycle at all vigorously (and let's face it, where's the fun in going slowly?) then you'll need a change of clothes and preferably a shower at work anyway. If you're prepared to do that - and obviously not everybody is - then the weather isn't such a huge concern.
I maintain the main problem is threading your way through traffic. I've never had the misfortune to cycle in properly central London, but even out here in the suburbs I know people who enjoying mountain biking at the weekends and don't fancy dicing it with the HGVs and white van men during the week.
I don't think it's a green thing either (sorry). Instead it's either people who get bored of travelling by car in central London (let's face it, it's not really what you'd call driving), those who want to get fit, those who want to beat the congestion or a combination of all three.
I maintain the main problem is threading your way through traffic. I've never had the misfortune to cycle in properly central London, but even out here in the suburbs I know people who enjoying mountain biking at the weekends and don't fancy dicing it with the HGVs and white van men during the week.
I don't think it's a green thing either (sorry). Instead it's either people who get bored of travelling by car in central London (let's face it, it's not really what you'd call driving), those who want to get fit, those who want to beat the congestion or a combination of all three.
I drive past one of the pick up points on Orsett Terrace in Bayswater every morning. There are 15 bays which have been slotted into what used to be 2 or 3 carparking places at the roadside. Where the Merc is parked here
Resultantly, the area taken up is only the width of a normal roadside parking space, which is roughly the length of a bicycle - I think you can see where I'm going with this. When you get the bike out of the rack, you have to pull it backwards into the road. The road is the main route onto the A4 Westbound avoiding the Kengestion zone and at 7:30 is very very busy. I wouldn't be surprised to see an car vs pedestrian/potential cyclist incident there in the next couple of months.
Resultantly, the area taken up is only the width of a normal roadside parking space, which is roughly the length of a bicycle - I think you can see where I'm going with this. When you get the bike out of the rack, you have to pull it backwards into the road. The road is the main route onto the A4 Westbound avoiding the Kengestion zone and at 7:30 is very very busy. I wouldn't be surprised to see an car vs pedestrian/potential cyclist incident there in the next couple of months.
Manks said:
Except I overlooked the weather.
Our climate is probably the single biggest reason why Boris Bikes won't take off. Cycling in London is a rubbish enough experience on a fine day, but when it's pissistently raining it's hell on earth. Then of course there's what to do with one's wet weather gear.
No, in my humble opinion bikes in the UK have a use for under 16s and as leisure vehicles. They aren't transport for the masses.
With all due respect, that's rubbish. Apparently someone doing a 30 minute commute each way every working day can expect to get rained on about 16 times a year (out of around 500 journeys). Roads can be wet a lot of the time, but anyone with mudguards won't have a problem with that. We get less rain than Copenhagen and Amsterdam so I can't see it being that big a factor.Our climate is probably the single biggest reason why Boris Bikes won't take off. Cycling in London is a rubbish enough experience on a fine day, but when it's pissistently raining it's hell on earth. Then of course there's what to do with one's wet weather gear.
No, in my humble opinion bikes in the UK have a use for under 16s and as leisure vehicles. They aren't transport for the masses.
I cycled about 15 miles a day, every working day, over a winter a couple of years back - partly as some kind of bloody-minded experiment. Sure, it was cold but easily mitigated with proper clothing. Even the rain is no problem really - technical fabrics now can be very breathable as well as waterproof and there's a big market (now well catered) for subtle cycling clothes that work on the bike without looking like a TdF finisher when you get there. These days I carry a lightweight jacket and a pair of rainlegs which is more than enough on a mudguard-equipped bike to stay dry, and doesn't take up much room at all on the bike. I'm doing about that mileage these days again, but on a Brompton - so at least I have the option of tube or a cab if the weather turned really bad and I couldn't be arsed.
The big difference between us and the dutch seems to be *not* seeing bikes as transport. We buy lots of specialist mountain bikes and road racing bikes which then get pressed into (not ideal) use as commuters. People don't buy sensible bikes with mudguards and racks, so they carry stuff on their backs and get sweaty. People think you need to ride in special clothes to go a few miles down the road. People get intimidated by the traffic and try to ride fast enough to keep up so you arrive dripping in sweat. They think you won't be seen by traffic unless you're wearing hi-viz. We just don't generally do the "transport cycling" thing very well, certainly not as well as the dutch, where you see commuters gliding along in their work clothes, people on their way to posh restaurants or the theatre in their smart outfits, along with all the people just going about their daily business, wearing exactly what they'd wear if they were walking there.
Anyway, I let a guy riding one of the new cycle hire bikes past me in the traffic this morning and followed him to the front of the queue. It turned out to be Boris - fair play to the guy for actually using the things. Just about every other politician would have sneaked on to one around the corner from the press conference.
Edited by sjg on Friday 30th July 10:58
sjg said:
The big difference between us and the dutch seems to be *not* seeing bikes as transport. We buy lots of specialist mountain bikes and road racing bikes which then get pressed into (not ideal) use as commuters. People don't buy sensible bikes with mudguards and racks, so they carry stuff on their backs and get sweaty. People think you need to ride in special clothes to go a few miles down the road. People get intimidated by the traffic and try to ride fast enough to keep up so you arrive dripping in sweat. They think you won't be seen by traffic unless you're wearing hi-viz. We just don't generally do the "transport cycling" thing very well, certainly not as well as the dutch, where you see commuters gliding along in their work clothes, people on their way to posh restaurants or the theatre in their smart outfits, along with all the people just going about their daily business, wearing exactly what they'd wear if they were walking there.
This.Commuting Cycling seems to awaken the (very) British trait of introvert oneupmanship we all tend to have.
Until I can afford my mega-money folding Pacific iF Mode (
) I'm plodding from London Bridge down to Great Suffolk Street - about half a mile away.Been watching the cycling commuters with interest this week just gone. A huge variety of machinery has been witnessed - from Cube Pelotons with Zipp clinchers (for hacking round London?!?), to full bouncer Treks, and everything in between.
Almost all have been attired in a variety of cycling clobber, and carrying a backpack of varying volume.
Except a very fine looking young lady yesterday morning - dressed in normal office attire, riding a dutch style bike with Handbag and laptop in front basket. Only concession to biking was a helmet.
It occurred to me that whilst she was plodding along at a more sedate pace than those with SPDs and Lycra, she wouldn't have had to get changed at the other end, need a shower, or have to cart round a change of clothes all the time.
Either that or because cycling isn't such a cultural thing as it is in Holland, the only people who would consider a bicycle a valid method of getting to work are already cycling enthusiasts and wouldn't consider a 20kg lump of Dutch steel as a workable solution.
Edited by Dunk76 on Friday 30th July 11:49
I come into a London station, and generally walk the remaining mile or so to the office. It takes as long to walk, as it does to take the tube... and given the choice of sauntering through some of London’s nicer side streets, or playing a game of sardines in a hot unpleasant environment, the former wins... even when it rains.
A large proportion of the office commute in casual clothes and change into a suit at the office anyway, so the prospect of using a “Boris Bike” does have an appeal to me. The roads I would use are quiet, and I can easily pass 4 sites. The only pain would be the availability of bikes, or not being able to dock at the one closest to the office / station.
A large proportion of the office commute in casual clothes and change into a suit at the office anyway, so the prospect of using a “Boris Bike” does have an appeal to me. The roads I would use are quiet, and I can easily pass 4 sites. The only pain would be the availability of bikes, or not being able to dock at the one closest to the office / station.
I get the point about the Dutch sauntering along, but I'm not sure that's something I could ever emulate personally.
If I wanted to relax I'd be in the car with the aircon and the stereo on. For me cycling to work is about a chance to push yourself a little, get fit and relieve boredom a bit more effectively than a car could in suburbia. Put simply it's far more exciting than dawdling along in my daily driver.
So I guess I'm the ultimate example of the British mentality to bikes, but I couldn't imagine getting on one and not breaking a sweat.
If I wanted to relax I'd be in the car with the aircon and the stereo on. For me cycling to work is about a chance to push yourself a little, get fit and relieve boredom a bit more effectively than a car could in suburbia. Put simply it's far more exciting than dawdling along in my daily driver.
So I guess I'm the ultimate example of the British mentality to bikes, but I couldn't imagine getting on one and not breaking a sweat.
sjg said:
Manks said:
Except I overlooked the weather.
Our climate is probably the single biggest reason why Boris Bikes won't take off. Cycling in London is a rubbish enough experience on a fine day, but when it's pissistently raining it's hell on earth. Then of course there's what to do with one's wet weather gear.
No, in my humble opinion bikes in the UK have a use for under 16s and as leisure vehicles. They aren't transport for the masses.
With all due respect, that's rubbish. Apparently someone doing a 30 minute commute each way every working day can expect to get rained on about 16 times a year (out of around 500 journeys). Roads can be wet a lot of the time, but anyone with mudguards won't have a problem with that. We get less rain than Copenhagen and Amsterdam so I can't see it being that big a factor.Our climate is probably the single biggest reason why Boris Bikes won't take off. Cycling in London is a rubbish enough experience on a fine day, but when it's pissistently raining it's hell on earth. Then of course there's what to do with one's wet weather gear.
No, in my humble opinion bikes in the UK have a use for under 16s and as leisure vehicles. They aren't transport for the masses.
It may only properly rain on someone travelling 30 minutes 16 times a year statistically, but the number of days when the weather is "a bit s
t" is a great deal more.As for mudguards dealing with standing water, don't be silly.
The number of days when a suited gent would want to ride a bike round London can probably be counted on two pages of the calendar. The other days will be too hot, wet or cold.
Looking smart in a business suit can be tricky enough at the best of times without choosing to expose oneself to the elements through the medium of bike.
Nope. Boris is mad. Mad as you like.
Manks
This scheme will be propped up with taxpayers money for as long as necessary.
Essentially, they don't work. This is why no private company has done it. There were several trials in e.g. Oxford and Cambridge, and at least one in Scotchland, and all they did was confirm the obvious problems and show up some more subtle ones (like the bikes tending to migrate).
Paris' system costs taxpayers 1,500 EUR per bike per year, and you've still got to pay to rent what is, in essence, a st bicycle. Anyone renting one can afford to own a better one.
Essentially, they don't work. This is why no private company has done it. There were several trials in e.g. Oxford and Cambridge, and at least one in Scotchland, and all they did was confirm the obvious problems and show up some more subtle ones (like the bikes tending to migrate).
Paris' system costs taxpayers 1,500 EUR per bike per year, and you've still got to pay to rent what is, in essence, a s
t bicycle. Anyone renting one can afford to own a better one.Edited by grumbledoak on Friday 30th July 14:54
Manks said:
The number of days when a suited gent would want to ride a bike round London can probably be counted on two pages of the calendar. The other days will be too hot, wet or cold.
Looking smart in a business suit can be tricky enough at the best of times without choosing to expose oneself to the elements through the medium of bike.
Plus it would interfere with one's Bowler, what?Looking smart in a business suit can be tricky enough at the best of times without choosing to expose oneself to the elements through the medium of bike.
Although it must be pointed out that after an hour on a train then twenty minutes on the tube in the morning, you'll struggle to get much filthier.
But no, it's why I'm still on foot in London - a wet/damp suit is an awful thing, and them getting wet tends to trash them in short order.
Isn't part of the problem that cycling in London, unlike Copenhagen, is pretty grim on the roads.
These cities with successful bike hire schemes are much more cycle friendly places in both road lane design and driver mentality. Perhaps if the scheme is at all successful, it will lead to some properly designed and enforced on road cycle routes in london.
These cities with successful bike hire schemes are much more cycle friendly places in both road lane design and driver mentality. Perhaps if the scheme is at all successful, it will lead to some properly designed and enforced on road cycle routes in london.
Dunk76 said:
This.
Commuting Cycling seems to awaken the (very) British trait of introvert oneupmanship we all tend to have.
Until I can afford my mega-money folding Pacific iF Mode () I'm plodding from London Bridge down to Great Suffolk Street - about half a mile away.
Been watching the cycling commuters with interest this week just gone. A huge variety of machinery has been witnessed - from Cube Pelotons with Zipp clinchers (for hacking round London?!?), to full bouncer Treks, and everything in between.
Almost all have been attired in a variety of cycling clobber, and carrying a backpack of varying volume.
Except a very fine looking young lady yesterday morning - dressed in normal office attire, riding a dutch style bike with Handbag and laptop in front basket. Only concession to biking was a helmet.
It occurred to me that whilst she was plodding along at a more sedate pace than those with SPDs and Lycra, she wouldn't have had to get changed at the other end, need a shower, or have to cart round a change of clothes all the time.
Either that or because cycling isn't such a cultural thing as it is in Holland, the only people who would consider a bicycle a valid method of getting to work are already cycling enthusiasts and wouldn't consider a 20kg lump of Dutch steel as a workable solution.
I agree with most of what you said but one thing to note. The reason some people ride road bikes and arrive needing a shower, is it can be good training/exercise rather than just a mode of transport.Commuting Cycling seems to awaken the (very) British trait of introvert oneupmanship we all tend to have.
Until I can afford my mega-money folding Pacific iF Mode (
) I'm plodding from London Bridge down to Great Suffolk Street - about half a mile away.Been watching the cycling commuters with interest this week just gone. A huge variety of machinery has been witnessed - from Cube Pelotons with Zipp clinchers (for hacking round London?!?), to full bouncer Treks, and everything in between.
Almost all have been attired in a variety of cycling clobber, and carrying a backpack of varying volume.
Except a very fine looking young lady yesterday morning - dressed in normal office attire, riding a dutch style bike with Handbag and laptop in front basket. Only concession to biking was a helmet.
It occurred to me that whilst she was plodding along at a more sedate pace than those with SPDs and Lycra, she wouldn't have had to get changed at the other end, need a shower, or have to cart round a change of clothes all the time.
Either that or because cycling isn't such a cultural thing as it is in Holland, the only people who would consider a bicycle a valid method of getting to work are already cycling enthusiasts and wouldn't consider a 20kg lump of Dutch steel as a workable solution.
Edited by Dunk76 on Friday 30th July 11:49
grumbledoak said:
This scheme will be propped up with taxpayers money for as long as necessary.
Essentially, they don't work. This is why no private company has done it. There were several trials in e.g. Oxford and Cambridge, and at least one in Scotchland, and all they did was confirm the obvious problems and show up some more subtle ones (like the bikes tending to migrate).
Paris' system costs taxpayers 1,500 EUR per bike per year, and you've still got to pay to rent what is, in essence, a st bicycle. Anyone renting one can afford to own a better one.
You're insinuating that something like this should make a profit since 'no private company has done it'. Why does it need to make money? Surely it's worth a subsidy if it gives the citizens of London an alternative mode of transport? This is where the UK always falls down on genaral quality of life - everything needs to make a profit. That leads to many initiatives not going ahead. Essentially, they don't work. This is why no private company has done it. There were several trials in e.g. Oxford and Cambridge, and at least one in Scotchland, and all they did was confirm the obvious problems and show up some more subtle ones (like the bikes tending to migrate).
Paris' system costs taxpayers 1,500 EUR per bike per year, and you've still got to pay to rent what is, in essence, a s
t bicycle. Anyone renting one can afford to own a better one.Edited by grumbledoak on Friday 30th July 14:54
Silver993tt said:
You're insinuating
That leads to many initiatives not going ahead.
No, I'm not. Read it again.That leads to many initiatives not going ahead.
And, good. There are an infinite number of s
t ideas that can be re-branded as 'initiatives'. The vast majority of which we don't want or need. This is another one of them which we will now have to pay for. Overpriced s
t bicycle rental. Super.when i was in nice, there were blue bike hire things all over the place, all of them seemed half full of bikes ready to go, and the rest of them being randomly ridden around.
the notice on them said the the forst 30mins hire of every day was free.
the bike looked to be low maintainence prop-shaft bikes with hub brakes ( like postie bikes ) and what i think is hub gears
the notice on them said the the forst 30mins hire of every day was free.
the bike looked to be low maintainence prop-shaft bikes with hub brakes ( like postie bikes ) and what i think is hub gears
JRM said:
Manks said:
Nope. Boris is mad. Mad as you like.
Manks
Saw him this morning as I cycled into the office as it happens, and he went past on one of the hire bikes with a cheery 'Morning'.
The bikes are, I feel, the manifestation of his madness. Or perhaps his attempt to make himself appear green.
Manks
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