Cars that change the way you think.
Discussion
Anybody who knows me in person will have heard my incessant droning on the subject of my beloved Peugeot 205 GTI. This is the car that I had always destined to become my track toy, the one that would consume the majority of my disposable income and take me across the circuits of the land, surprising much more expensive machinery and making me look like some sort of driving god.
Unfortunately, my destiny, and its destiny weren’t quite the same. Well sure, it consumed a lot of disposable income, but unfortunately the track dream is yet to be fully lived, and whether it ever will is unknown. There are two reasons for this. Personal circumstances have suspended any fun that costs me money for the past year. The second, probably more decisive reason came in the form of a large lump of red metal and plastic.
The large lump of red metal and plastic I am referring to was my new daily drive. In a period when I didn’t need to commute large distances, I saw fit to replace my excellent but uninspiring Ford Puma, with a car twice its age and twice its mileage. Seems mad, but this was my first BMW, and my first rear wheel drive car, so logic may have been masked by excitement. The car in question was an E30 318IS, in Brilliant Red, with 101k on the clock and a great maintenance history. It wasn’t perfect, but it was good enough for me.
Okay so it was a controversial 4-cylinder BMW, and from purchase it didn’t have the rare LSD option. However it didn’t take long to take to its charms. The long steering rack and relatively soft setup made it a very different experience to what I was used to, and the lack of any urgency below 4000rpm made the car feel gutless compared to the VCT Puma it replaced. This didn’t matter though, all it took was a clear stretch of flowing A-road and it all made sense. It had a fantastic balance, excellent response in the power band, and undeniable charm that comes from that generation Beemer. The addition of the LSD during its time with me only added to the experience. It was practical too, 35MPG could be achieved, and any rumours of edgey handling in wet conditions proved utterly unfounded. In fact, during 17 months and 8000 miles, I cannot recall any situations where its behaviour was unpredictable.
A particularly memorable drive was that returning from Le Mans 2009. We had an extra passenger, totalling four in the car, with everyone’s camping gear fitted in too. Regardless of its pay load, and a journey that started at 4PM on Sunday and ended at 4AM on Monday, the BMW was on side. Relentless pace and reliability across the toll roads of France and countryside of England provided me with a journey I won’t forget any time soon.
It was a car that I would be more than happy to drive across any great roads without feeling as if I needed something more special.
This point made me think, what was so special? It is just a 136bhp 20 year old BMW anyway right? Right, but from day one, the dynamic that resulted from that engine and drive layout just felt so natural. How a car should behave, well to me anyway. The other point that stood out was the ability to drive well whilst being comfortable in most situations, whether it be Town, Motorway or in between. A great all rounder, in fact the best I have owned so far. Yes, the 205 is sharper, more engaging and faster, but given a journey with any distance covering various road situations, the BMW would become the choice. Maybe I am just a big softy who likes to be able to warm to a car for more than 10% of the journey, without constantly watching the gauges waiting for the next failure.
You have probably noticed me talking about the car in the past tense. Well today I sold it. Yes the last few paragraphs of rose-tinted gibberish were speaking of the same car that is now embodied by a pile of cash. Surely if it was that great then I would own it forever? It was great, but I am young and there are probably still plenty of better cars out there. Besides, it could never be that example I used to become my fun car, it was too nice for that.
So what now? I have discovered from this that the car I built for fun was maybe not the car I wanted all along. That and I have a lot of unfinished business with rear wheel drive cars. So with some money available, and the requirement for something to do the daily duties and potentially replace the 205 in time, I am hunting through the classifieds to find something that can beat an act that will be pretty hard to follow.
Another thing I have learnt is whatever I do get will have to capable of not only getting me too and from events, but also be a proposition to be enjoyed in a wider range of situations. That and never to buy a daily drive that could threaten the fun car
. Now baring in mind the template answer to the What Car? Threads on here, take a guess at where my search starts?;)
Now my essay full of probably shoddy grammar is done, who else can remember a car that influenced the course of all the cars they have owned since?
Unfortunately, my destiny, and its destiny weren’t quite the same. Well sure, it consumed a lot of disposable income, but unfortunately the track dream is yet to be fully lived, and whether it ever will is unknown. There are two reasons for this. Personal circumstances have suspended any fun that costs me money for the past year. The second, probably more decisive reason came in the form of a large lump of red metal and plastic.
The large lump of red metal and plastic I am referring to was my new daily drive. In a period when I didn’t need to commute large distances, I saw fit to replace my excellent but uninspiring Ford Puma, with a car twice its age and twice its mileage. Seems mad, but this was my first BMW, and my first rear wheel drive car, so logic may have been masked by excitement. The car in question was an E30 318IS, in Brilliant Red, with 101k on the clock and a great maintenance history. It wasn’t perfect, but it was good enough for me.
Okay so it was a controversial 4-cylinder BMW, and from purchase it didn’t have the rare LSD option. However it didn’t take long to take to its charms. The long steering rack and relatively soft setup made it a very different experience to what I was used to, and the lack of any urgency below 4000rpm made the car feel gutless compared to the VCT Puma it replaced. This didn’t matter though, all it took was a clear stretch of flowing A-road and it all made sense. It had a fantastic balance, excellent response in the power band, and undeniable charm that comes from that generation Beemer. The addition of the LSD during its time with me only added to the experience. It was practical too, 35MPG could be achieved, and any rumours of edgey handling in wet conditions proved utterly unfounded. In fact, during 17 months and 8000 miles, I cannot recall any situations where its behaviour was unpredictable.
A particularly memorable drive was that returning from Le Mans 2009. We had an extra passenger, totalling four in the car, with everyone’s camping gear fitted in too. Regardless of its pay load, and a journey that started at 4PM on Sunday and ended at 4AM on Monday, the BMW was on side. Relentless pace and reliability across the toll roads of France and countryside of England provided me with a journey I won’t forget any time soon.
It was a car that I would be more than happy to drive across any great roads without feeling as if I needed something more special.
This point made me think, what was so special? It is just a 136bhp 20 year old BMW anyway right? Right, but from day one, the dynamic that resulted from that engine and drive layout just felt so natural. How a car should behave, well to me anyway. The other point that stood out was the ability to drive well whilst being comfortable in most situations, whether it be Town, Motorway or in between. A great all rounder, in fact the best I have owned so far. Yes, the 205 is sharper, more engaging and faster, but given a journey with any distance covering various road situations, the BMW would become the choice. Maybe I am just a big softy who likes to be able to warm to a car for more than 10% of the journey, without constantly watching the gauges waiting for the next failure.
You have probably noticed me talking about the car in the past tense. Well today I sold it. Yes the last few paragraphs of rose-tinted gibberish were speaking of the same car that is now embodied by a pile of cash. Surely if it was that great then I would own it forever? It was great, but I am young and there are probably still plenty of better cars out there. Besides, it could never be that example I used to become my fun car, it was too nice for that.
So what now? I have discovered from this that the car I built for fun was maybe not the car I wanted all along. That and I have a lot of unfinished business with rear wheel drive cars. So with some money available, and the requirement for something to do the daily duties and potentially replace the 205 in time, I am hunting through the classifieds to find something that can beat an act that will be pretty hard to follow.
Another thing I have learnt is whatever I do get will have to capable of not only getting me too and from events, but also be a proposition to be enjoyed in a wider range of situations. That and never to buy a daily drive that could threaten the fun car
. Now baring in mind the template answer to the What Car? Threads on here, take a guess at where my search starts?;)Now my essay full of probably shoddy grammar is done, who else can remember a car that influenced the course of all the cars they have owned since?
Edited by JayPee on Sunday 1st August 19:41
Its probably been said many times before, but the MX5 - it introduced me to light weight, balanced RWD and the joys of a convertible. When I first bought one I planned to buy a hard-top for it because I didn't think I'd want to put the roof down. A couple of years on, screw that idea!
L ove rading stuff like that, it's good to hear anyone's experiences with a car they are passionate about, whether it's their new Lamborghini or an old banger they are fond of. I've got two cars that have made me reassess what I like in a car.
First, my Ford Fiesta. It has many things about it which I could complain about; very basic interior, no rev counter, low speed, lack of torque etc. However, as I spent more time with it and got used to it's spartan style, I started to love it. It's faster than my friend's Corsas, and the rock-hard suspension that makes it crash over potholes also helps it corner tighter, something I didn't appreciate immediately. The main car I learned to drive in was 2008 Astra Sport with a turbo diesel engine. It was stupidly quick compared to the other cars I'd driven at that point, but the steering, while weighty and satisfying, did not offer a huge amount of feedback. This was something that I actually got quite a lot of in my Fiesta, which makes it a satisfying drive.
The car that really changed the way I think, or at least the one that has relly spurred me to want a proper performance car was my dad's 2005 Impreza. It's a 2.0L GX Sport, not an STi, and it doesn't have a turbo. However, it is by far the quickest car I've ever driven, and it handles amazingly. The way the AWD shoots you out of corners in the wet is awesome, and it corners like it's on rails. It looks great, the engine note is superb (classic boxer burble) with loads of bass, so accelerating hard reminds me of the noise of a space shuttle take off. I can't help but grin like a loon when I'm driving it. It's an effortless cruiser and when you push it a bit harder it just makes it look easy. From driving this, I know now that I will never be satisfied with a "normal" car, and I will now always aspire to own something like an Impreza. Currently, the car I really, really want to own is a Renault Megane 225
First, my Ford Fiesta. It has many things about it which I could complain about; very basic interior, no rev counter, low speed, lack of torque etc. However, as I spent more time with it and got used to it's spartan style, I started to love it. It's faster than my friend's Corsas, and the rock-hard suspension that makes it crash over potholes also helps it corner tighter, something I didn't appreciate immediately. The main car I learned to drive in was 2008 Astra Sport with a turbo diesel engine. It was stupidly quick compared to the other cars I'd driven at that point, but the steering, while weighty and satisfying, did not offer a huge amount of feedback. This was something that I actually got quite a lot of in my Fiesta, which makes it a satisfying drive.
The car that really changed the way I think, or at least the one that has relly spurred me to want a proper performance car was my dad's 2005 Impreza. It's a 2.0L GX Sport, not an STi, and it doesn't have a turbo. However, it is by far the quickest car I've ever driven, and it handles amazingly. The way the AWD shoots you out of corners in the wet is awesome, and it corners like it's on rails. It looks great, the engine note is superb (classic boxer burble) with loads of bass, so accelerating hard reminds me of the noise of a space shuttle take off. I can't help but grin like a loon when I'm driving it. It's an effortless cruiser and when you push it a bit harder it just makes it look easy. From driving this, I know now that I will never be satisfied with a "normal" car, and I will now always aspire to own something like an Impreza. Currently, the car I really, really want to own is a Renault Megane 225
Cars that were 'revelations' when driven:
Elise (specifically an S1 Sport 135): Up to this point I'd owned a diet of FWD hot-hatches/coupes, and an S13 200SX. A mate let me pedal his Elise. The steering on the Lotus was fantastic; it was so direct and friction-free. The chassis response was instantaneous, the entire car felt like it had no inertia. The unservoed brakes were also fabulously direct. It left a deep impression, that it felt more race-car than road-car. I still remember how tactile it was, 10 years later. Incidentally, the VX220T felt much quicker, but noticeably duller in its responses IMO.
Mk1 MX5: I, too, thought it was an overhyped, slightly camp, grossly underpowered pastiche of a 'real' sports car. Drove a mate's import 1.6l Eunos S-Spec with the Bilstein suspension. Within 5 minutes I was addicted to the quick, direct steering, lack of inertia, manic, revvy engine, and how comically easy it was to oversteer and catch. So much so that I bought his car.
205 GTi: I'd owned/driven loads of hot-hatches. A good 205, to this day, has steering feel and adjustability on another level. I think it was Performance Car mag that said that Peugeot 'wouldn't dare sell a car as knife-edged today'.
TVR Tuscan S6: I'd driven ( and own) 'lesser' TVRs, but the Tuscan is the real deal. Impossibly direct and high-geared steering, hair-trigger throttle-response, vast noise, and catapult-launch-off-the-USS-Nimitz acceleration. I'd really like one next.
Mazda RX8: Drove one just the other week, and was genuinely taken aback at the performance, chassis damping, turn-in, brakes, steering feel and gearchange quality that it gave for the price. A real bargain 'proper' sports coupe.
Elise (specifically an S1 Sport 135): Up to this point I'd owned a diet of FWD hot-hatches/coupes, and an S13 200SX. A mate let me pedal his Elise. The steering on the Lotus was fantastic; it was so direct and friction-free. The chassis response was instantaneous, the entire car felt like it had no inertia. The unservoed brakes were also fabulously direct. It left a deep impression, that it felt more race-car than road-car. I still remember how tactile it was, 10 years later. Incidentally, the VX220T felt much quicker, but noticeably duller in its responses IMO.
Mk1 MX5: I, too, thought it was an overhyped, slightly camp, grossly underpowered pastiche of a 'real' sports car. Drove a mate's import 1.6l Eunos S-Spec with the Bilstein suspension. Within 5 minutes I was addicted to the quick, direct steering, lack of inertia, manic, revvy engine, and how comically easy it was to oversteer and catch. So much so that I bought his car.
205 GTi: I'd owned/driven loads of hot-hatches. A good 205, to this day, has steering feel and adjustability on another level. I think it was Performance Car mag that said that Peugeot 'wouldn't dare sell a car as knife-edged today'.
TVR Tuscan S6: I'd driven ( and own) 'lesser' TVRs, but the Tuscan is the real deal. Impossibly direct and high-geared steering, hair-trigger throttle-response, vast noise, and catapult-launch-off-the-USS-Nimitz acceleration. I'd really like one next.
Mazda RX8: Drove one just the other week, and was genuinely taken aback at the performance, chassis damping, turn-in, brakes, steering feel and gearchange quality that it gave for the price. A real bargain 'proper' sports coupe.
i never owned this vehicle but was a passenger in it. it was a mitsubishi evolution 6 which my friend had uprated to north of 600 bhp. i told him i thought this was utter tosh and he took the car fully loaded out for a spin which i will never forget.
he was known for having done lots of advanced driving and courses but sweet god even to this day it raises hairs on the back of my neck. going round a roundabout in colchester in the outside lane sideways overtaking a guy in a cavalier who actually tried clapping as we went past. very juvenille i know but it was precision driving at warp speed.
his previous motors were a pulsar which ate its gearbox and a mk2 16v astra gte which i bought off him and regret selling ever since. it was untouched and i loved it but circumstances dictate. damn it!
he was known for having done lots of advanced driving and courses but sweet god even to this day it raises hairs on the back of my neck. going round a roundabout in colchester in the outside lane sideways overtaking a guy in a cavalier who actually tried clapping as we went past. very juvenille i know but it was precision driving at warp speed.
his previous motors were a pulsar which ate its gearbox and a mk2 16v astra gte which i bought off him and regret selling ever since. it was untouched and i loved it but circumstances dictate. damn it!
The Lotus Carlton - introduced me to the true sensation of supercar acceleration, the kind that assaults your senses and feels more like a jet aircraft than a car.
The deTomaso Longchamp - after trying out several classic GTs from the 'golden age' of the '60s and '70s, this was the one that felt most 'together', handled best and felt like it could be driven from London to Rome only stopping for fuel whilst still being fun to drive in twisties.
The Citroen CX - still to this day one of the most advanced saloon cars ever made. Truly relaxing to drive without lulling you off to sleep, you adapt your driving style to be as smooth as possible and the learning process is as satisfying as getting a circuit just right. Rather than flattering the ham-fisted, it's a luxury car you actually have to learn to drive properly and it doesn't suffer fools gladly. I actually (whisper it) prefer it to the much-loved DS, although it wouldn't be here without the DS.
The Toyota MR2 Mk1 (or possibly the Lotus Eclat as it's very similar to drive) - communicated to me in a very short time precisely what I want from a car. The driving style of these two cars is nothing short of perfect, in everything from throttle response and control surface feel to cabin ergonomics and engine note.
The deTomaso Longchamp - after trying out several classic GTs from the 'golden age' of the '60s and '70s, this was the one that felt most 'together', handled best and felt like it could be driven from London to Rome only stopping for fuel whilst still being fun to drive in twisties.
The Citroen CX - still to this day one of the most advanced saloon cars ever made. Truly relaxing to drive without lulling you off to sleep, you adapt your driving style to be as smooth as possible and the learning process is as satisfying as getting a circuit just right. Rather than flattering the ham-fisted, it's a luxury car you actually have to learn to drive properly and it doesn't suffer fools gladly. I actually (whisper it) prefer it to the much-loved DS, although it wouldn't be here without the DS.
The Toyota MR2 Mk1 (or possibly the Lotus Eclat as it's very similar to drive) - communicated to me in a very short time precisely what I want from a car. The driving style of these two cars is nothing short of perfect, in everything from throttle response and control surface feel to cabin ergonomics and engine note.
JayPee said:
So what now? I have discovered from this that the car I built for fun was maybe not the car I wanted all along. That and I have a lot of unfinished business with rear wheel drive cars. So with some money available, and the requirement for something to do the daily duties and potentially replace the 205 in time, I am hunting through the classifieds to find something that can beat an act that will be pretty hard to follow.
buy a gearbox kart, something like a 125 ICC should suffice. its is unlikely you will ever be in a position to say that your ability outweighs the karts capability and it will be far cheaper to run than a track car...Edited by JayPee on Sunday 1st August 19:41
I went from a 106 Rallye to an iS, very similar change. I've just changed to an E36 rack, and stuck some lower profile (50 profile) Toyo T1Rs on, its transformed it, feels a lot more nimble and agile than it did, whilst retaining the cruising capabilities. I did 2500 miles round europe after Le Mans this year with a mate, and it ate it up! It was so nice to have a cruising machine that was comfortable on the motorway, and yet still loads of fun to hammer round the ring with! I think the iS is very under-rated 
Only thing I'm after now is a bit more power!
Only thing I'm after now is a bit more power!GravelBen said:
Its probably been said many times before, but the MX5 - it introduced me to light weight, balanced RWD and the joys of a convertible.
Light weight? 
Lighter than most euroboxes maybe, but light weight, never. It's almost twice the weight of a Westfield, 50% heavier than an MG Midget even.MKnight702 said:
GravelBen said:
Its probably been said many times before, but the MX5 - it introduced me to light weight, balanced RWD and the joys of a convertible.
Light weight? Lighter than most euroboxes maybe, but light weight, never. It's almost twice the weight of a Westfield, 50% heavier than an MG Midget even.Hmm, for me it'd be:
Ariel Atom II - remains my ultimate definition of acceleration
Bentley Continental Supersports - just how much fun something weighing 2.3 tons can be
Jaguar XJ 2.7 TD V6 - the first truly refined diesel I drove
MINI Cooper D - such a complete product for what it is; solid quality feel and refinement of a bigger car, handling of a proper warm hatch, thirst of a diesel city car
Lotus Elise (happened to be an S2 SC) - benchmark for steering clarity in real world conditions; provides the sort of feedback some cars can match on the track while you're bouncing around a bumpy, potholed, cambered B-road
Range Rover Sport - almost defies physics how something that big and heavy can handle like that, we used one as a high speed chase car at Gaydon because it could lap as fast as the sports saloon we were following with 5 people on board... Still wouldn't want to be seen in one given I live in the footballer belt, but impressive acheivement.
Ford S-Max - same as the above really, but far cheaper and even less outwardly sporty, yet somehow still a genuinely good drive.
Ariel Atom II - remains my ultimate definition of acceleration
Bentley Continental Supersports - just how much fun something weighing 2.3 tons can be
Jaguar XJ 2.7 TD V6 - the first truly refined diesel I drove
MINI Cooper D - such a complete product for what it is; solid quality feel and refinement of a bigger car, handling of a proper warm hatch, thirst of a diesel city car
Lotus Elise (happened to be an S2 SC) - benchmark for steering clarity in real world conditions; provides the sort of feedback some cars can match on the track while you're bouncing around a bumpy, potholed, cambered B-road
Range Rover Sport - almost defies physics how something that big and heavy can handle like that, we used one as a high speed chase car at Gaydon because it could lap as fast as the sports saloon we were following with 5 people on board... Still wouldn't want to be seen in one given I live in the footballer belt, but impressive acheivement.
Ford S-Max - same as the above really, but far cheaper and even less outwardly sporty, yet somehow still a genuinely good drive.
pablo said:
JayPee said:
So what now? I have discovered from this that the car I built for fun was maybe not the car I wanted all along. That and I have a lot of unfinished business with rear wheel drive cars. So with some money available, and the requirement for something to do the daily duties and potentially replace the 205 in time, I am hunting through the classifieds to find something that can beat an act that will be pretty hard to follow.
buy a gearbox kart, something like a 125 ICC should suffice. its is unlikely you will ever be in a position to say that your ability outweighs the karts capability and it will be far cheaper to run than a track car...Edited by JayPee on Sunday 1st August 19:41
As for the 6-pot BMW's, A friend has a nice e36 328i coupe. Great powertrain and still that great balance, but for a track/fun car I have never really considered it. As a full attack stripped out car or an M3 then I think they can be great, as proven by many threads in the readers cars section, but both of those options are too impractical or expensive for me really.
As I am without car at the moment, and one is on my list of stuff to try anyway, I am getting on a train to go and look at a Mk1 MX5 later. It's a 1.8 so probably comparable/slightly faster than the IS, but hopefully a good option as a possible replacement for the 205 over time.
As for the guys who got bored of reading this, I just read it over and I can't blame you. I definitely cannot write for s
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