NIP dilema!!!

[snapper8v]

I've just received a NIP for contravening a red light last week in Stockport. I'm not disputing the fact as there's photographic evidence but what I am disputing is I don't know who was driving at that particular time as the wife & I had been shopping in Manchester then headed down to the Peak District and had been sharing the driving).

I've been in touch with the ticketing dept. and they stated that if none of us have been on a driver awareness course in the past 3 years (which none of us have) then well "probably" be offered this instead of the 3 penalty points (the £60 fine is still liable). He had a look at the photo and can't see who was driving (the photo shows the rear of the car).

So here's the dilema. Do I take the rap with the hope that I'm offered the course. If I'm not offered the course and 3 points added to my licence, then I'll be complaining, but they'll more than likely turn around and say that I admitted that I was driving. What should I do please??? Thanks.

LAWRENCE

[Papa Hotel]

Damn, I hoped this was a Nude in Public thread.

[davepoth]

The "I didn't know who was driving" defence is really, really hard to prove. Plus the penalty you'll be looking at for that (a S.172 charge) is 6 points and a £200 fine. So unless you really, really want to go to court, lose, and double your insurance for the next 4 years (S.172 points are very heavily weighted by the insurance companies) I'd just tell them who is most likely to have been driving and suck it up if you get three points.

I'm not a lawyer, so make sure you get proper legal advice before following mine.

[Gad-Westy]

davepoth said:

The "I didn't know who was driving" defence is really, really hard to prove. Plus the penalty you'll be looking at for that (a S.172 charge) is 6 points and a £200 fine. So unless you really, really want to go to court, lose, and double your insurance for the next 4 years (S.172 points are very heavily weighted by the insurance companies) I'd just tell them who is most likely to have been driving and suck it up if you get three points.

I'm not a lawyer, so make sure you get proper legal advice before following mine.

It's a bit daft though isn't it? If this were a criminal case, the prosecution would have to prove that the defendant is guilty beyond all reasonable doubt. In this case (and many others) there is no doubt that the law has been broken but even the defendant doesn't know if he's guilty. Always strikes me as odd.

[J4CKO]

I cant see how you wouldnt remember, I personally always know who was driving, I cant help it !

Still, sixty quid and no points, big deal ! toss for it if you really dont have a clue who was driving, pay thirty quid each and whoever has more leave/spare time gets to go on the course.

[snapper8v]

J4CKO said:

Still, sixty quid and no points, big deal ! toss for it if you really dont have a clue who was driving, pay thirty quid each and whoever has more leave/spare time gets to go on the course.

This is exactly what the bloke said at the ticketing dept. I'm not from Stockport thus I don't know the road that the offence took place. I know that I could go & Google it, but it was last week.....

As mentioned, I don't mind paying a fine, and doing the course, but the question is "WILL I DEFINITELY BE OFFERED THE COURSE"???

[bassanclan]

go to pepipoo website

[snapper8v]

bassanclan said:

go to pepipoo website

I have done, nobody's repled as yet.

I've been in touch with a solicitor and he said I either take the rap with the "hope" that I'm offered the course, but with 9 points on my licence (3 came off in June whilst the others 6 come off in September & November) the constabulary will probably award me with another 3, or say that my wife was driving so that she'll be sent a notice and that we'll both go to court and fight our corner with the hope that it'd be quashed or run teh risk of a higher fine, court costs & 6 brownie points!!! The country is a joke!

[Jag-D]

Papa Hotel said:

Damn, I hoped this was a Nude in Public thread.

Such high hopes

[shakotan]

bassanclan said:

go to pepipoo website

I don't see why?

The OP admitted that the offence was actually made, so if they don't know who was driving, they decide which one of the should take the blame.

What further help would pepipoo be?

[shakotan]

snapper8v said:

bassanclan said:

go to pepipoo website

I have done, nobody's repled as yet.

I've been in touch with a solicitor and he said I either take the rap with the "hope" that I'm offered the course, but with 9 points on my licence (3 came off in June whilst the others 6 come off in September & November) the constabulary will probably award me with another 3, or say that my wife was driving so that she'll be sent a notice and that we'll both go to court and fight our corner with the hope that it'd be quashed or run teh risk of a higher fine, court costs & 6 brownie points!!! The country is a joke!

I don't understand this statement? Why would you nominate your wife for an offence you KNOW one of you commited, and then fight against it to get quashed?

If you are worried about being banned by totting up, then have your wife take the points (or awareness course) and split the fine between you.

The 3 points she 'may' get will not affect her insurance, so why the fuss?

[FasterFreddy]

snapper8v said:

bassanclan said:

go to pepipoo website

I have done, nobody's repled as yet.

I've been in touch with a solicitor and he said I either take the rap with the "hope" that I'm offered the course, but with 9 points on my licence (3 came off in June whilst the others 6 come off in September & November) the constabulary will probably award me with another 3, or say that my wife was driving so that she'll be sent a notice and that we'll both go to court and fight our corner with the hope that it'd be quashed or run teh risk of a higher fine, court costs & 6 brownie points!!! The country is a joke!

I'm willing to be told otherwise, but I think as you've still got current points on your licence, the chances of you being offered the course are slim.

IF you are genuinely unsure who was driving and you have taken all reasonable steps to find out, then really you should answer the NIP by stating the names and addresses of all the possible drivers and be prepared to go to court to convince the magistrates of the same.

If you have used all REASONABLE diligence to determine who was driving and you present this to the magistrates in a CREDIBLE way then they really should dismiss the case. Otherwise, you may end up with the 6 points and big fine for not disclosing the driver (if they think you are hiding that fact).

However, nothing is certain in this world. Especially Magistrate's decisions.

But if you are being 100% honest and are prepared to put some work in to show reasonable diligence then justice should be done in your favour.

[snapper8v]

shakotan said:

snapper8v said:

bassanclan said:

go to pepipoo website

I have done, nobody's repled as yet.

I've been in touch with a solicitor and he said I either take the rap with the "hope" that I'm offered the course, but with 9 points on my licence (3 came off in June whilst the others 6 come off in September & November) the constabulary will probably award me with another 3, or say that my wife was driving so that she'll be sent a notice and that we'll both go to court and fight our corner with the hope that it'd be quashed or run teh risk of a higher fine, court costs & 6 brownie points!!! The country is a joke!

I don't understand this statement? Why would you nominate your wife for an offence you KNOW one of you commited, and then fight against it to get quashed?

If you are worried about being banned by totting up, then have your wife take the points (or awareness course) and split the fine between you.

The 3 points she 'may' get will not affect her insurance, so why the fuss?

I shouldn't get a ban under the totting up process (3 points came off in June but I'm not intending sending my licenec in until November when they all come off) but going by the advice from a solicitor who said to maybe nominate my wife as she has a clean licence and that they'll probably offer her the course (sorry, forgot to add that bit to the above statement) or failing that, then go to the courts.

[shakotan]

snapper8v said:

shakotan said:

snapper8v said:

bassanclan said:

go to pepipoo website

I have done, nobody's repled as yet.

I've been in touch with a solicitor and he said I either take the rap with the "hope" that I'm offered the course, but with 9 points on my licence (3 came off in June whilst the others 6 come off in September & November) the constabulary will probably award me with another 3, or say that my wife was driving so that she'll be sent a notice and that we'll both go to court and fight our corner with the hope that it'd be quashed or run teh risk of a higher fine, court costs & 6 brownie points!!! The country is a joke!

I don't understand this statement? Why would you nominate your wife for an offence you KNOW one of you commited, and then fight against it to get quashed?

If you are worried about being banned by totting up, then have your wife take the points (or awareness course) and split the fine between you.

The 3 points she 'may' get will not affect her insurance, so why the fuss?

I shouldn't get a ban under the totting up process (3 points came off in June but I'm not intending sending my licenec in until November when they all come off) but going by the advice from a solicitor who said to maybe nominate my wife as she has a clean licence and that they'll probably offer her the course (sorry, forgot to add that bit to the above statement) or failing that, then go to the courts.

I still don't understand why you need to go to the courts?

Is it not a FPN?

Just nominate your wife and have her take the course or points, pay fine, job done!