Advanced road driving training
Poll: Advanced road driving training
Total Members Polled: 103
Discussion
Did the RoSPA test in March '08 - very much worth it. A few months away from a retest now so need to decide whether to go for it again.
Also did a Cadence Driver Development day back in 2005 - again, very good but maybe not worth doing the "basic" package if you've already done IAM/RoSPA and have an appreciation of "Roadcraft" and the principles therein.
Also did a Cadence Driver Development day back in 2005 - again, very good but maybe not worth doing the "basic" package if you've already done IAM/RoSPA and have an appreciation of "Roadcraft" and the principles therein.
This is something I'm leaning more towards in recent months.
I suppose part of the reason for not already doing it is the fact I've had very tame cars so far, also I feel my observation is pretty good after commuting by bike for several years.
However, I'm now looking at either a S2 exige, or bike engined Fisher Fury. If it happens, then I'll definately be doing some form of advanced driver training. Not because i think the cars mentioned are inherently dangerous, merely the fact that the type of driving I do will be different (lots of mileage on unfamiliar roads etc.), and I think it would be very useful to start learning the necessary skills.
Next difficult decision is what training to go for!
I suppose part of the reason for not already doing it is the fact I've had very tame cars so far, also I feel my observation is pretty good after commuting by bike for several years.
However, I'm now looking at either a S2 exige, or bike engined Fisher Fury. If it happens, then I'll definately be doing some form of advanced driver training. Not because i think the cars mentioned are inherently dangerous, merely the fact that the type of driving I do will be different (lots of mileage on unfamiliar roads etc.), and I think it would be very useful to start learning the necessary skills.
Next difficult decision is what training to go for!
Sway said:
Next difficult decision is what training to go for!
I would do two independent things. Firstly do something like the IAM course, which will almost certainly improve your road-craft to some extent, however much you already know. The other thing worth doing is a course on how to control cars at their handling limits. Walshy days come very highly recommended in the Elise community (http://carlimits.com/). 
. I can't pretend I drive like that all the time, though.I started the IAM course, and it could only help you become a better driver but there were some aspects of the technique that I just could not agree with, so I decided to make the most of what I'd learnt and leave it at that.
I'm also not going to reveal what those aspects were for fear of a predictable army of beards appearing and telling me I'm wrong because the IAM says so.
I'm also not going to reveal what those aspects were for fear of a predictable army of beards appearing and telling me I'm wrong because the IAM says so.
The Wookie said:
I started the IAM course, and it could only help you become a better driver but there were some aspects of the technique that I just could not agree with, so I decided to make the most of what I'd learnt and leave it at that.
I'm also not going to reveal what those aspects were for fear of a predictable army of beards appearing and telling me I'm wrong because the IAM says so.
Trust me. We already know. No beard, either. Shame you couldn't get to the end but good for you for giving it a go anyway. Everyone gets something out of it...I'm also not going to reveal what those aspects were for fear of a predictable army of beards appearing and telling me I'm wrong because the IAM says so.
I did a few on road course; a very defensive one for fleet driving (I think it was through RideDrive) and others for 'spirited' road driving, such as MAC Driver Training (who used to be part of Honda).
The guy on the fleet course didn't really have a clue what he was talking about. Quite an amount of the advice was counter intuitive and further away from safety than its intention. The MAC courses were run by ex-class 1 Police instructors and were much more valuable, in my opinion. They were far more interested in prescribing attitude as well as skills, which is the more important aspect.
Unfortunately in my case, I put the cart before the horse and by the time I took the on road courses, I had already done a lot of track work, got the race licence, done the skid pan training and so on. I didn't make enough of the attitude adjustment between the speed you can drive on track and the speed you should try and carry on the road. Ultimately that ended in disaster.
I would say advanced road training with 'spirited' driving in mind is definately worth the investment over working on your skills in car control. If you get the former right then the latter becomes less likely to be important, on the road. If you go for the latter first, you run the risk of assuming it will save you if and when you get the attitude wrong.
The guy on the fleet course didn't really have a clue what he was talking about. Quite an amount of the advice was counter intuitive and further away from safety than its intention. The MAC courses were run by ex-class 1 Police instructors and were much more valuable, in my opinion. They were far more interested in prescribing attitude as well as skills, which is the more important aspect.
Unfortunately in my case, I put the cart before the horse and by the time I took the on road courses, I had already done a lot of track work, got the race licence, done the skid pan training and so on. I didn't make enough of the attitude adjustment between the speed you can drive on track and the speed you should try and carry on the road. Ultimately that ended in disaster.
I would say advanced road training with 'spirited' driving in mind is definately worth the investment over working on your skills in car control. If you get the former right then the latter becomes less likely to be important, on the road. If you go for the latter first, you run the risk of assuming it will save you if and when you get the attitude wrong.
I'm not sure what to tick tbh. I've done a lot of reading and practising but no actual instruction.
Although I learnt a great deal following a bike copper down the A24 one morning as he demonstrated everything I'd been reading about. I went from cursing him for ruining what would have been a fast but basically unsafe blast to thanking him
Although I learnt a great deal following a bike copper down the A24 one morning as he demonstrated everything I'd been reading about. I went from cursing him for ruining what would have been a fast but basically unsafe blast to thanking him
The most valuable aspect of on-road driver training is risk management, imo.
Becoming risk aware through active observation.
Adapting driving plans to eliminate as much risk as possible - being where the accident isn't - becoming risk averse.
Managing risk to allow maximised safe progress.
It's really nice to be ultra-smooth, too, and you can't pass an Advanced Test by letting the clutch up with a bang, thumping and crunching through gears and going on and off the brakes like they were a switch but it's the risk bit where you get an advantage.
The wonderful thing about both of these aspects is that they can be improved through practice and tuition. Experience makes them better, too, of course but only if it's experience at doing the right thing! (Golf coaches the world over will tell you this!)
Becoming risk aware through active observation.
Adapting driving plans to eliminate as much risk as possible - being where the accident isn't - becoming risk averse.
Managing risk to allow maximised safe progress.
It's really nice to be ultra-smooth, too, and you can't pass an Advanced Test by letting the clutch up with a bang, thumping and crunching through gears and going on and off the brakes like they were a switch but it's the risk bit where you get an advantage.
The wonderful thing about both of these aspects is that they can be improved through practice and tuition. Experience makes them better, too, of course but only if it's experience at doing the right thing! (Golf coaches the world over will tell you this!)
I looked into joining the IAM. In fact technically I did join it and my subscription lapsed. My observer (well, the bloke I did the taster session with) was very good - keen on making progress, proper petrolhead, good communicator. However, when I went round to a meet it was something of a caricature of itself – a load of middle aged and elderly people discussing the relevance of double de-clutching and how best to hitch up a caravan.
I’m tempted to get back into it, but I’d probably look at something like RoSPA instead.
I’m tempted to get back into it, but I’d probably look at something like RoSPA instead.
I did the IAM test a couple of years ago but have let it lapse, because as mentioned, the meetings tend to be inhabited by beards and Nissan Micra drivers. I also didn't agree with a number of things they were keen on, mainly related to absolute compliance with speed limits whatever the road/conditions etc.
That said I think it was well worth doing, I learnt a few useful things and it made me think about my driving critically for the first time in about 15 years.
That said I think it was well worth doing, I learnt a few useful things and it made me think about my driving critically for the first time in about 15 years.
Vlad the Imp said:
I did the IAM test a couple of years ago but have let it lapse, because as mentioned, the meetings tend to be inhabited by beards and Nissan Micra drivers. I also didn't agree with a number of things they were keen on, mainly related to absolute compliance with speed limits whatever the road/conditions etc.
That said I think it was well worth doing, I learnt a few useful things and it made me think about my driving critically for the first time in about 15 years.
I maintain my membership and do Observing for my group. But I simply cannot do the meetings. Shame - at our group they get a speaker in every month who talks on a subject related to motoring. There have been some interesting speakers but I just can't get there...That said I think it was well worth doing, I learnt a few useful things and it made me think about my driving critically for the first time in about 15 years.
The driving test is woefully inadequate, so I'd definitely recommend advanced training. Some people take their eye off the ball with it though and start obsessing over the methods, and get their priorities wrong, which is a shame. The other thing that's frustrating about IAM and RoSPA is that their approach seems dogmatic rather than intelligent, which is annoying. That's nit picking though, of course getting training from IAM or RoSPA is a huge step on from the basic road test, which sends thousands of people straight to the scene of an accident every year (last time I looked, IAM members had a 70% lower accident rate than the rest of the populous).
Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 4th August 11:27
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