landlords - what bills do you pay?
Discussion
Hi,
my friend went travelling for a year and let her flat out. One person was already in there and she got a new person as well.
she let it out informally with everything in it still and she is paying all bills. this includes phone,broadband and council tax.
Now shes back she's going to move in with her bloke. Can she change the let so they have to pay some or all of the bills? or can you not change it once its been decided etc?
is it usual to pay for council tax, phone, broadband when letting a property with all bills paid?
thanks
my friend went travelling for a year and let her flat out. One person was already in there and she got a new person as well.
she let it out informally with everything in it still and she is paying all bills. this includes phone,broadband and council tax.
Now shes back she's going to move in with her bloke. Can she change the let so they have to pay some or all of the bills? or can you not change it once its been decided etc?
is it usual to pay for council tax, phone, broadband when letting a property with all bills paid?
thanks
I've only seen it where a landlord is obviously not wanting to tell their mortgage provider (so keeps everything registered to the property), or where a property has been divided up without the proper approvals, especially a house into flats - so there's only one electric/gas/water meter for the building and the landlord just "includes bills" rather than have tenants calling the utilities only to find their address doesn't exist.
Your friend needs to formalise the let. As already said the tenants are in a very good position to be arkward and frustrating all at your friends expense.
As Landlord you're free to choose to pay all the bills and just include a charge in the rent or charge tenants when you receive a bill. Personally, I wouldn't though unless I lived in the property too. In which case the tenants would be lodgers, which is different to a tenant.
All the above is a general guide.
As Landlord you're free to choose to pay all the bills and just include a charge in the rent or charge tenants when you receive a bill. Personally, I wouldn't though unless I lived in the property too. In which case the tenants would be lodgers, which is different to a tenant.
All the above is a general guide.
petemurphy said:
Hi,
my friend went travelling for a year and let her flat out. One person was already in there and she got a new person as well.
she let it out informally with everything in it still and she is paying all bills. this includes phone,broadband and council tax.
Now shes back she's going to move in with her bloke. Can she change the let so they have to pay some or all of the bills? or can you not change it once its been decided etc?
is it usual to pay for council tax, phone, broadband when letting a property with all bills paid?
thanks
Yes there is, a verbal contract. Usually lets are exclusive of all service charges, unless otherwise stated, so exclusive of council tax, gas, electric, phone, broadband, water rates etc.my friend went travelling for a year and let her flat out. One person was already in there and she got a new person as well.
she let it out informally with everything in it still and she is paying all bills. this includes phone,broadband and council tax.
Now shes back she's going to move in with her bloke. Can she change the let so they have to pay some or all of the bills? or can you not change it once its been decided etc?
is it usual to pay for council tax, phone, broadband when letting a property with all bills paid?
thanks
petemurphy said:
hmm on further investigation they have signed a standard contract bought in whsmith and on this it says they pay the bills! can she now insist on this?!
You are going to take this the wrong way. If you don't already know the answer to this then you should tell your friend that you can't help them and suggest they contact a legal eagle.It sounds like your friend hasn't read and understood the contract they used. Unless they're Australian, suggest they have a root around landlordzone.co.uk for information about, well, being a Landlord.
Dare we ask if she's put the tenant's bond/deposits in the Tenancy Deposit Protection Scheme?
mk1fan said:
petemurphy said:
hmm on further investigation they have signed a standard contract bought in whsmith and on this it says they pay the bills! can she now insist on this?!
You are going to take this the wrong way. If you don't already know the answer to this then you should tell your friend that you can't help them and suggest they contact a legal eagle.It sounds like your friend hasn't read and understood the contract they used. Unless they're Australian, suggest they have a root around landlordzone.co.uk for information about, well, being a Landlord.
Dare we ask if she's put the tenant's bond/deposits in the Tenancy Deposit Protection Scheme?
petemurphy said:
hmm on further investigation they have signed a standard contract bought in whsmith and on this it says they pay the bills! can she now insist on this?!
Your friend sounds like she has absolutely NO idea what she is doing. She needs to be very careful she doesn't get herself in trouble with the mortgage lender, the council and the tax man. Professional advice is required, though what sort of professional is beyond me.
We rent our house out, and all we pay are the original mortgage, the buildings insurance and the breakdown gas insurance. The tenant (hopefully) pays rent, electric, gas, council tax and water rates.
OP please be careful what you read on here. Some of the advice above is plainly wrong.
Whether in writing or by oral agreement there is a contract in place, and the presumption is (and I would guess the WH Smith contract states) that there is an assured shorthold tenancy in place. As for who pays the bills, there is no correct manner of agreeing this it is entirely up to the parties what they agree. The difficulty with oral contracts is not that they are in any way legally different in terms of status to a written contract, it is simply that it is far more difficult to ascertain what the parties have agreed as the terms of the contract.
Your friend may say that the written agreement is compelling evidence that the tenants should pay the bills. The tenants may say that there was an oral agreement that the landlord agreed to pay the bills. They may also be able to show by way of a course of dealing, bank records, utility bills etc that the landlord has indeed been paying those bills. It would raise the question, if the landlord is asserting that the tenants are to pay the bills, why she has been doing so. This is not definitive but goes to the evidence of which party is correct. Nobody on here, including myself, can give you the definitive answer you are looking for because we do not have a full picture and do not have access to the documentation that would suggest that one or other of the parties is correct.
Someone above has correctly stated that deposits must be kept in a recognised deposit scheme, otherwise your friend may be liable for a 3x penalty. She may also be in difficulties with her mortgage lender as if she is under a standard residential mortgage it will almost always say that she must be in occupation and cannot let the property without the consent of the lender.
Regarding council tax (and please read this with caution) certainly with one local authority I have had dealings with, they hold both the landlord as owner of the property, and tenant as occupier jointly and severally liable for the tax debt. The obligation for the tenant to ensure the council tax is paid flows from the terms of the tenancy agreement. Well drafted tenancy agreements will have provision for this, allowing a claim to be brought should the tenant fail to comply with the contractual obligations. This may differ from one LA to another.
All of these difficulties demonstrate why, as a landlord, it is so important to:
1. Know what you are doing, or if you do not then pay someone who does.
2. Ensure that any contract is recorded in writing.
3. Ensure that any written contract is well drafted. Standard form contracts should generally be approached with caution (this is no reflection of the WH Smith one used here, I have no idea of its content as I have never knowingly seen a WH Smith contract) The reason for this is that by its nature, it is not designed specifically for the situation of the landlord and tenant in question.
4. Be wary of management agents, as they frequently make errors both in administration and in basic understanding of legal issues.
I hope this helps you.
Whether in writing or by oral agreement there is a contract in place, and the presumption is (and I would guess the WH Smith contract states) that there is an assured shorthold tenancy in place. As for who pays the bills, there is no correct manner of agreeing this it is entirely up to the parties what they agree. The difficulty with oral contracts is not that they are in any way legally different in terms of status to a written contract, it is simply that it is far more difficult to ascertain what the parties have agreed as the terms of the contract.
Your friend may say that the written agreement is compelling evidence that the tenants should pay the bills. The tenants may say that there was an oral agreement that the landlord agreed to pay the bills. They may also be able to show by way of a course of dealing, bank records, utility bills etc that the landlord has indeed been paying those bills. It would raise the question, if the landlord is asserting that the tenants are to pay the bills, why she has been doing so. This is not definitive but goes to the evidence of which party is correct. Nobody on here, including myself, can give you the definitive answer you are looking for because we do not have a full picture and do not have access to the documentation that would suggest that one or other of the parties is correct.
Someone above has correctly stated that deposits must be kept in a recognised deposit scheme, otherwise your friend may be liable for a 3x penalty. She may also be in difficulties with her mortgage lender as if she is under a standard residential mortgage it will almost always say that she must be in occupation and cannot let the property without the consent of the lender.
Regarding council tax (and please read this with caution) certainly with one local authority I have had dealings with, they hold both the landlord as owner of the property, and tenant as occupier jointly and severally liable for the tax debt. The obligation for the tenant to ensure the council tax is paid flows from the terms of the tenancy agreement. Well drafted tenancy agreements will have provision for this, allowing a claim to be brought should the tenant fail to comply with the contractual obligations. This may differ from one LA to another.
All of these difficulties demonstrate why, as a landlord, it is so important to:
1. Know what you are doing, or if you do not then pay someone who does.
2. Ensure that any contract is recorded in writing.
3. Ensure that any written contract is well drafted. Standard form contracts should generally be approached with caution (this is no reflection of the WH Smith one used here, I have no idea of its content as I have never knowingly seen a WH Smith contract) The reason for this is that by its nature, it is not designed specifically for the situation of the landlord and tenant in question.
4. Be wary of management agents, as they frequently make errors both in administration and in basic understanding of legal issues.
I hope this helps you.
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