Should prisoners have access to education and training?
Discussion
What do you think?
They are a waste of space and don't deserve anyone's time, money or help OR to do something they enjoy whilst being punished - especially as cuts to education spending are affecting an entire generation.
As sentences get shorter and prisons more overcrowded, prisoners need to be effectively rehabilitated so they can make a worthwhile contribution instead of living on benefits when they are freed.
Or something else?
They are a waste of space and don't deserve anyone's time, money or help OR to do something they enjoy whilst being punished - especially as cuts to education spending are affecting an entire generation.
As sentences get shorter and prisons more overcrowded, prisoners need to be effectively rehabilitated so they can make a worthwhile contribution instead of living on benefits when they are freed.
Or something else?
To decide whether they are "deserving", you would first need evaluate/judge/pigeon hole each and every prisoner.
parakitaMol. said:
They are a waste of space and don't deserve anyone's time, money or help OR to do something they enjoy whilst being punished - especially as cuts to education spending are affecting an entire generation.
Well, that was easier than I thought.sjg said:
Yes, but on similar terms to those going to university - you pay (or at least contribute) to the cost, when you're working and earning over a certain amount you start paying it back.
But with the added rider that any education funding is prioritised towards schools. If there's anything left after dealing with the existing education system, by all means, use it for rehabilitation. Just not at the expense of the former.
Yes, because not all people in prison are career criminals and will at some point contribute positively to society.
The vast majority of the prison population are under 25yo (I would imagine, without looking it up) and are in that phase of their life before they grow up and realise there is right and wrong and feel guilt for their actions.
The vast majority of the prison population are under 25yo (I would imagine, without looking it up) and are in that phase of their life before they grow up and realise there is right and wrong and feel guilt for their actions.
Edited by GTIR on Tuesday 10th August 11:32
Usually I'd say slaughter them all, but, rather than just go back out and kill some other bugger why not learn something (for those who show active interest not just toss off) & maybe might not go back and kill someone on there turf for s
ts & giggles.
On the other hand, prison is not a place for learning, you're put there to sit in the naughty corner, so if you get out, then learn, not in prison.
ts & giggles.On the other hand, prison is not a place for learning, you're put there to sit in the naughty corner, so if you get out, then learn, not in prison.
Glassman said:
Bring back boot camps and borstal
Contrary to popular belief they didn't work as well as is imagined. "... a breeding ground for bullies and psychopaths" so said a person. The fact is the threat of a custodial sentance is the only detterant as once inside you become institutionilised - meaning you get into a routine and it becomes "normal". If you were stuck in a muddy, dark hole, after the initial shock, you would adapt and operate a normal life.
I would want them to leave with a trade, some knowledge and (hopefully) a sense of change. That way they wont re-offend, realise that the life of crime isnt a very good or easy one, and also they would, by virtue of seeing what most of us already know, tell others and further impriove society
then again, I do the lottery every week in the knowledge that "someone wins", and that someone might be me
then again, I do the lottery every week in the knowledge that "someone wins", and that someone might be me
Famous Graham said:
sjg said:
Yes, but on similar terms to those going to university - you pay (or at least contribute) to the cost, when you're working and earning over a certain amount you start paying it back.
But with the added rider that any education funding is prioritised towards schools. If there's anything left after dealing with the existing education system, by all means, use it for rehabilitation. Just not at the expense of the former.
Drove too many hours in his wagon so got locked up for 12 weeks WTF?
ETA I know he couldn't have really learned anything in 12 weeks, was just making a point about depending what the crime was.
Edited by WorAl on Tuesday 10th August 11:49
WorAl said:
I agree with this, it should also depend on the crime too as one of my friends was locked up for 12 weeks for working too hard, literally because he was working hard.
Drove too many hours in his wagon so got locked up for 12 weeks WTF?
He must have been a repeat offender to be locked up. Drove too many hours in his wagon so got locked up for 12 weeks WTF?
Would you still be sympathetic if he wiped out a family after he fell asleep at the wheel?
Truckers are restricted to 52 hours per a reason.
Thanks for the interesting comments. I am genuinely interested in how people feel, I have quite contradictory mixed feelings about this myself.
It's hard to detach from your own experience, I was fortunate that and had a good education and upbringing - nature or nurture? It's really hard to 'imagine' how I'd have turned out had I been subject to poverty, gangs, poor education and a lack of positive role models. I'd still have the same intellectual capacity but how would I have applied it? I strongly suspect I might have been inclined towards 'creative' money making schemes.
Some kids have the foulest of experiences and prison is fairly inevitable. I do think that with the ever-shortening sentences, due to budgets and crowding it is a possibly a wise social investment - if it does indeed effect the re-offending rates.
Having said that, I also feel a twinge of resentment as my son, like many other honest and hard-working youngsters struggle to realise his educational ambitions.
Thanks for the contributions so far!
It's hard to detach from your own experience, I was fortunate that and had a good education and upbringing - nature or nurture? It's really hard to 'imagine' how I'd have turned out had I been subject to poverty, gangs, poor education and a lack of positive role models. I'd still have the same intellectual capacity but how would I have applied it? I strongly suspect I might have been inclined towards 'creative' money making schemes.
Some kids have the foulest of experiences and prison is fairly inevitable. I do think that with the ever-shortening sentences, due to budgets and crowding it is a possibly a wise social investment - if it does indeed effect the re-offending rates.
Having said that, I also feel a twinge of resentment as my son, like many other honest and hard-working youngsters struggle to realise his educational ambitions.
Thanks for the contributions so far!
Edited by parakitaMol. on Tuesday 10th August 12:10
I believe the prison system should have a learning reward based approach. Those that recongnise the error of thier ways and want to do better when they get out get the cushiest prison. The ones that have no interest or likelyhood of getting out have the hardest, just bread, water and slop bucket e.c.t.
The more effort you put into your own re-habilitation the easier your time becomes. Equally the more trouble, gobby or violent you are the harder it gets.
Everyone would start in the middle and decide their own direction.
The more effort you put into your own re-habilitation the easier your time becomes. Equally the more trouble, gobby or violent you are the harder it gets.
Everyone would start in the middle and decide their own direction.
Yes.
Put it this way, there is a serious literacy problem amongst our prisoners:
http://www.channel4.com/culture/microsites/L/lost_...
48% have the reading age of an 11-year-old, 65% are innumerate and 82% have trouble writing.
If you can't read, write or do basic maths, there's no way you can get even the most meagre job, so no wonder crime looks like an inviting alternative. If you let out a prisoner who is illiterate and innumerate, who has spent six months mixing with hardened career criminals, all they'll learn, by word-of-mouth, is how to be a better criminal.
There are two strands of this problem at stake here, but only one concerns the prison system.
Those statistics beg the question - how does anyone manage to leave school at the age of 16 unable to read, write or count properly? The problem is a combination of soft-touch, there-there, everyone-wins-a-prize schooling and a lack of education ethic at home. I've had to try and teach the consequences of this first-hand, and our daft curriculum dictates that the best thing for these kids is, among other things, Shakespeare. Our curriculum is far too academically biased, and needs to acknowledge that people have skills suited to a whole variety of jobs from a fairly early age. We'd be better off replacing GCSEs with more vocationally-based qualifications for non-academic kids, with the qualifications gained at the end having equal value to the GCSEs and A-levels.
Also, the punishments for parents who can't be bothered to make sure their kids go to school need to be far more severe.
I suppose prison could function, in some cases, as a 'last-chance saloon' to sort your life out. Basic, but comprehensive educational facilities need to be offered. If you don't take the option of education, you face a longer sentence.
I also think some kind of mobile-phone jamming net would prevent prisoners from co-ordinating crime from within their cells. In order to work effectively, prisons really do need to be impossible to commit crime in (although having typed that I've just reminded myself of the 'justice zone' from Red Dwarf.
Put it this way, there is a serious literacy problem amongst our prisoners:
http://www.channel4.com/culture/microsites/L/lost_...
48% have the reading age of an 11-year-old, 65% are innumerate and 82% have trouble writing.
If you can't read, write or do basic maths, there's no way you can get even the most meagre job, so no wonder crime looks like an inviting alternative. If you let out a prisoner who is illiterate and innumerate, who has spent six months mixing with hardened career criminals, all they'll learn, by word-of-mouth, is how to be a better criminal.
There are two strands of this problem at stake here, but only one concerns the prison system.
Those statistics beg the question - how does anyone manage to leave school at the age of 16 unable to read, write or count properly? The problem is a combination of soft-touch, there-there, everyone-wins-a-prize schooling and a lack of education ethic at home. I've had to try and teach the consequences of this first-hand, and our daft curriculum dictates that the best thing for these kids is, among other things, Shakespeare. Our curriculum is far too academically biased, and needs to acknowledge that people have skills suited to a whole variety of jobs from a fairly early age. We'd be better off replacing GCSEs with more vocationally-based qualifications for non-academic kids, with the qualifications gained at the end having equal value to the GCSEs and A-levels.
Also, the punishments for parents who can't be bothered to make sure their kids go to school need to be far more severe.
I suppose prison could function, in some cases, as a 'last-chance saloon' to sort your life out. Basic, but comprehensive educational facilities need to be offered. If you don't take the option of education, you face a longer sentence.
I also think some kind of mobile-phone jamming net would prevent prisoners from co-ordinating crime from within their cells. In order to work effectively, prisons really do need to be impossible to commit crime in (although having typed that I've just reminded myself of the 'justice zone' from Red Dwarf.
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