Discussion
The Wookie said:
IIRC, the nose lift systems are usually supplemental to a conventional spring and damper system, and have no effect on ride and handling when not in use
that's what akarakily says some of the new 'all round' air ride systems are like too...hence my 'wonderment'..?!
i am genuinely interested...!
briSk said:
that's what akarakily says some of the new 'all round' air ride systems are like too...
I must admit, I thought they were a wholesale replacement for springs and dampers and hence you'd end up with a system that's probably approximated to the car's weight and therefore presumably inferior to both an OEM sprung setup or an OEM air suspension systemIt's possible that you could have a supplemental system, but on the basis that the 'look' is to have the car as close to the deck as possible (which usually cocks up the handling in itself), it could only be there for lifting the car over obstacles and presumably wouldn't be very good for ride/handling either
I have air suspension on my Cayenne S. It give limosine like ride quality and does other good stuff like lower the car when exceeding 85mph to aid stabilty.
I can also adjust the damping settings between sports and comfort. To be honest it makes little difference as my tyres are not premium and are the weakest link so the car generally stays in comfort settings. It does a good job of preventing body roll and the car pitching under braking.
It makes sense on a 2.2 ton of road vehicle (not that mine does a lot of that) but I'm not so sure it's comparable to sport cars setups.
I can also adjust the damping settings between sports and comfort. To be honest it makes little difference as my tyres are not premium and are the weakest link so the car generally stays in comfort settings. It does a good job of preventing body roll and the car pitching under braking.
It makes sense on a 2.2 ton of road vehicle (not that mine does a lot of that) but I'm not so sure it's comparable to sport cars setups.
briSk said:
does any one know exactly how the porsche/merc/whoever else systems work and how similar to after market systems they actually are...?
I read Performance VW regularly, although not part of the VW scene - I just quite like some of the cars produced and the workmanship that goes into them....There was a really good feature a few months ago, where they went to see a (German, I think) manufacturer of air ride systems, and looked at the development and testing of the systems they produce - They are definitely not just cobbled together in the way you'd think, with some of the latest systems being a bit more than just a bag at each corner that goes up and down.
If you're interested, I'm sure I can probably find it, and will post it up
Superhoop said:
briSk said:
does any one know exactly how the porsche/merc/whoever else systems work and how similar to after market systems they actually are...?
I read Performance VW regularly, although not part of the VW scene - I just quite like some of the cars produced and the workmanship that goes into them....There was a really good feature a few months ago, where they went to see a (German, I think) manufacturer of air ride systems, and looked at the development and testing of the systems they produce - They are definitely not just cobbled together in the way you'd think, with some of the latest systems being a bit more than just a bag at each corner that goes up and down.
If you're interested, I'm sure I can probably find it, and will post it up
i think it'd be great if you couls put it up on here (subject to any copyright type haymarket issues - otherwise i wouldn;t mind a PM'd scan..!).
Air suspension in the U.S. means an aftermarket system that replaces your stock system and gives you variable ride height controlled (usually) through an electric air pump. It is also called "bagging" and has other names, too.
For example, this thing is on an air ride (low setting, obviously):
For example, this thing is on an air ride (low setting, obviously):
I have air suspension on my Lexus RX and its marginal at best as to the difference. The conventional spring setup on the RX is supposed to be soft but OK and the air setup is a little more controlled, but still soft. I do have a ride height setting and a dropping it down (which it does by a little at speed) does tighten it up a bit at speed - so it feels more controlled and direct at motorway speeds. It does however increase the harshness quite a bit. While you float over cats eyes on normal, in the lower setting (you CANNOT call it sport) it crashes over them - so there is a penalty to pay. One advantage though is around 2MPG better fuel economy! I guess the lower ride makes it a slippier shape!
Oh, and I have an access setting - that drops it to the lowest height when its locked, so its much lower to get into when you start it up. Also known as the old-gipper setting! So far proven to be trouble free and had no issues at all. Though my local tyre place insists you tell them if its air suspension before they start work. Seems that some systems dont like being jacked up or having wheels in the air and require a special maintenance mode setting - which the Lexus doesnt.
Is it worth the money? If I had bought the car new - no. Second hand? Maybe, but certainly more costly to repair than normal suspension, so needs caution.
Oh, and I have an access setting - that drops it to the lowest height when its locked, so its much lower to get into when you start it up. Also known as the old-gipper setting! So far proven to be trouble free and had no issues at all. Though my local tyre place insists you tell them if its air suspension before they start work. Seems that some systems dont like being jacked up or having wheels in the air and require a special maintenance mode setting - which the Lexus doesnt.
Is it worth the money? If I had bought the car new - no. Second hand? Maybe, but certainly more costly to repair than normal suspension, so needs caution.
air-ride comes in quite a few forms.
from coil-replacement bags (over your strut) to just bags, to pre-built units.
then there is compressor(s) size, tank size, manifold, switch gear, valves...
you can have cheap front/rear kits or expensive 4 wheel adjustable kits, which handle significantly better.
horses for courses. £1500 air-ride will get out-handles by £500 coilovers. wheras £3500 air-ride will piss on all.
from coil-replacement bags (over your strut) to just bags, to pre-built units.
then there is compressor(s) size, tank size, manifold, switch gear, valves...
you can have cheap front/rear kits or expensive 4 wheel adjustable kits, which handle significantly better.
horses for courses. £1500 air-ride will get out-handles by £500 coilovers. wheras £3500 air-ride will piss on all.
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