Is this reasonable? Opinions sought urgently.
Discussion
A junior (only just 20) shop assistant has been asked by their store manager to go to London for training on a matter where the person is not and will not be responsible for the issue in hand in future. Why the actual responsible person cannot go is unclear.
However this will involve a night away and 4 hours travel each way in addition to the training. This would be the first time they've been in London on their own and probably first night away from home on their own other than staying at a relative's / sleep over. So I'd perhaps say a "young" 20.
The person is at the most junior grade and paid by the hour, and there is a clause in the contract which says that people may be asked to work at other locations quote "within a reasonable distance." Unquote.
The person is also part time, so if say they are only due to work 5 hours on the day in question, they will be paid 5 hours only and all the rest will be for free. I'm assuming train fares and hotel would be paid, no idea about other out of pocket expenses.
Is this a reasonable request?
Also is a day trip also with 3and a half hours travel each way to another town also classed as a reasonable distance?
I have my opinions and have expressed them but interested to hear some objective comments.
Thanks in advance.
Edited to add
The day trip is on same basis pay wise, ie if 5 hours is normal duty ends up with 5 hours pay, all the hours to/from let's say the three hours each way is again freeman's.
However this will involve a night away and 4 hours travel each way in addition to the training. This would be the first time they've been in London on their own and probably first night away from home on their own other than staying at a relative's / sleep over. So I'd perhaps say a "young" 20.
The person is at the most junior grade and paid by the hour, and there is a clause in the contract which says that people may be asked to work at other locations quote "within a reasonable distance." Unquote.
The person is also part time, so if say they are only due to work 5 hours on the day in question, they will be paid 5 hours only and all the rest will be for free. I'm assuming train fares and hotel would be paid, no idea about other out of pocket expenses.
Is this a reasonable request?
Also is a day trip also with 3and a half hours travel each way to another town also classed as a reasonable distance?
I have my opinions and have expressed them but interested to hear some objective comments.
Thanks in advance.
Edited to add
The day trip is on same basis pay wise, ie if 5 hours is normal duty ends up with 5 hours pay, all the hours to/from let's say the three hours each way is again freeman's.
Edited by F i F on Tuesday 10th August 20:18
Distance, for me, would not fall within the bounds of my personal definition of "reasonable".
You say asked - actual request, or an order? If the former, they should view it as evidence of someone's confidence in them as an employee, perhaps as a precursor to promotion (maybe even to do the job they are being trained for?).
As far as pay and expenses go, I would expect to be recompensed for any expenses incurred wholly and exclusively in the course of the business - train, hotel, meals (maybe lunch, maybe not), but not for the night at ChinaWhite.
I'd seek clarification about whether the travel time is counted as payable work time, and if not, decline the kind offer to spend an entire working day in Virgin cattle class.
You say asked - actual request, or an order? If the former, they should view it as evidence of someone's confidence in them as an employee, perhaps as a precursor to promotion (maybe even to do the job they are being trained for?).
As far as pay and expenses go, I would expect to be recompensed for any expenses incurred wholly and exclusively in the course of the business - train, hotel, meals (maybe lunch, maybe not), but not for the night at ChinaWhite.
I'd seek clarification about whether the travel time is counted as payable work time, and if not, decline the kind offer to spend an entire working day in Virgin cattle class.
well if they are a part time shop assitant and will not even be fufilling the duties in the future then its a bit silly IMO
I would expecy ALL expenses and payment for a full 8 hour day if i was willing to go - this is what i get in my current FT job. I can also claim the travel time.
in this sort of situation i would probably ask for payment of travel time and the time spent training
I would expecy ALL expenses and payment for a full 8 hour day if i was willing to go - this is what i get in my current FT job. I can also claim the travel time.
in this sort of situation i would probably ask for payment of travel time and the time spent training
randlemarcus said:
You say asked - actual request, or an order?
Thanks for the quick response. Very much along my thoughts though.It currently falls into the matter of a notice of what will be requested. The person involved definitely feels intimidated that if they refuse their will be long term consequences. The question I was asked, if I refuse to go can I be fired?
I think the answer to that is genuinely no, and if so there would be consequences for the firm.
However for example the manager has a history of being a bit arsey and rather poor imo, eg the slightest issue results in deliberately awkward shift patterns being imposed at short notice. Not just with this person, any member of staff suffers.
F i F said:
A junior (only just 20) shop assistant has been asked by their store manager to go to London for training on a matter where the person is not and will not be responsible for the issue in hand in future. Why the actual responsible person cannot go is unclear
Grab the opportunity with both hands and become a less young 20 and a better trained individual.Ask to be paid for the travel time and obviously all expenses, but if the travel time is considered just that then let it go.
Personally I wouldn't expect to be paid for the travel time even as an hour rate employees, however I would expect if I was at the training for eight hours to be paid all eight. Plus a reasonable subsistence which IIRC the revenue take as £30 for evening meal
I'd see it as a show of faith by the manager in my ability and one I'd jump at.
I'd see it as a show of faith by the manager in my ability and one I'd jump at.
It depends on the culture involved, some have expectations, implied or explicit.
In general, people should be paid for what they do. So if they work x hours, that should be the payment. Any travel time over and above the norm should also be paid (or TOIL etc). a good emploey should have that sort of detail in a company handcook or similar.
It is even more important for lesser paid people as they have less leeway.
That's IMO and of course things like the above may help us choose where we work
In general, people should be paid for what they do. So if they work x hours, that should be the payment. Any travel time over and above the norm should also be paid (or TOIL etc). a good emploey should have that sort of detail in a company handcook or similar.
It is even more important for lesser paid people as they have less leeway.
That's IMO and of course things like the above may help us choose where we work
Thanks for all comments from people which very much mirror my own in many ways.
Part of me says it's not reasonable, especially on the pay and rations side, and more so for someone who is perhaps not that street wise being perhaps better way than saying a young 20 as in some ways quite mature in outlook.
But a part of me wants to say, just stiffen the bloody spine and treat it as an opportunity and learning experience. At that age I'd been away from home a year at uni, and I'd already driven in London on my own attending interviews and so on for Imperial College etc.
The comment about a lone worker risk assessment is a good one, thanks for that, especially as the individual concerned is female.
Waiting to hear outcome.
Part of me says it's not reasonable, especially on the pay and rations side, and more so for someone who is perhaps not that street wise being perhaps better way than saying a young 20 as in some ways quite mature in outlook.
But a part of me wants to say, just stiffen the bloody spine and treat it as an opportunity and learning experience. At that age I'd been away from home a year at uni, and I'd already driven in London on my own attending interviews and so on for Imperial College etc.
The comment about a lone worker risk assessment is a good one, thanks for that, especially as the individual concerned is female.
Waiting to hear outcome.
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