The Fat Frank / Stevie G debate

[hornetrider]

Why has this been ignored by the media recently? And during the World Cup? It's what got McClown sacked (and Sven). To me its been patently obvious that you play one or t'other but never the twain shall meet. Yet it seems to be off the agenda these days.

And no prizes for guessing who I think should be consigned to the scrapheap

[Castrol Craig]

fat frank can go and do tv commentary during england games.

[Skylinecrazy]

LAMPARD CAREER STATS; 133 Goals, 93 Goals for Chelsea, 39 goals for West Ham United,
GERRARD CAREER STATS; 76 Goals all scored for Liverpool

Before you blind Liverpool fans jump on me.


Lampard is better for club, Gerrard for country.

Facts don't lie.

Edited by Skylinecrazy on Wednesday 11th August 21:56

[Castrol Craig]

Skylinecrazy said:

LAMPARD CAREER STATS; 133 Goals, 93 Goals for Chelsea, 39 goals for West Ham United,
GERRARD CAREER STATS; 76 Goals all scored for Liverpool

Before you blind Liverpool fans jump on me.


Lampard is better for club, Gerrard for country.

Facts don't lie.

Edited by Skylinecrazy on Wednesday 11th August 21:56

[MiniMan64]

Skylinecrazy said:

LAMPARD CAREER STATS; 133 Goals, 93 Goals for Chelsea, 39 goals for West Ham United,
GERRARD CAREER STATS; 76 Goals all scored for Liverpool

Before you blind Liverpool fans jump on me.


Lampard is better for club, Gerrard for country.

Facts don't lie.

Edited by Skylinecrazy on Wednesday 11th August 21:56

To be fair on those stats, FF has had rather more support at Chelsea for his goals than Stevie has at Liverpool.

[Wings]

Rooney might also be the problem, after he vacated the stage,much more movement on and off the ball.

[Skylinecrazy]

Castrol Craig said:

Skylinecrazy said:

LAMPARD CAREER STATS; 133 Goals, 93 Goals for Chelsea, 39 goals for West Ham United,
GERRARD CAREER STATS; 76 Goals all scored for Liverpool

Before you blind Liverpool fans jump on me.


Lampard is better for club, Gerrard for country.

Facts don't lie.

Edited by Skylinecrazy on Wednesday 11th August 21:56

How did I know you'd laugh?

You seem blind to anyone else other than Steven Gerrard.

Are you perhaps an admirer or a stalker?

We will wait till the end of the season, and see who gets the most assists/goals.

I bet it'll be Lampard as it has been the last 2 or 3 seasons....

Would you care to partake in a reasonable argument?

[hornetrider]

Skyline. I don't give a flying fk who scores most goals for their club you imbecile. The issue here is what is best for the England team.

[Skylinecrazy]

hornetrider said:

Skyline. I don't give a flying fk who scores most goals for their club you imbecile. The issue here is what is best for the England team.

Oh dear, resulting to personal insults already?

[hornetrider]

I apologise. However I'm not discussing raw club goals here. It's how do England play when they are both on the pitch. The answer is st, always has been, always will be.

[CinqAbarth]

They're both generally st for England, though.

Gerrard, for example, has only scored 1 goal against decent opposition and mostly looks out of his depth in an England shirt.

[Skylinecrazy]

hornetrider said:

I apologise. However I'm not discussing raw club goals here. It's how do England play when they are both on the pitch. The answer is st, always has been, always will be.

I agree.

[hornetrider]

CinqAbarth said:

Gerrard, for example, has only scored 1 goal against decent opposition and mostly looks out of his depth in an England shirt.

[andyjo1982]

We'll never really know just how good Lampard could be for England because, the problem is that Frank hasn't had the chance to play in his preferred position without Stevie G in the team. Gerrard was good tonight, but why has it taken years for him to grab an England game by the scruff of the neck like he does for Liverpool so often (lets ignore last season)?

Lampard is not as good defensively but his passing and awareness of players making runs is imho better than Gerrards. There is very little between their shooting abilities. Lampards game is hindered by Gerrard playing in the same team because they play such similar roles.

We should be grateful to have 2 such talented midfielders, and they are probably 2 of the top 6 or 7 midfielders in the world. It is such a shame that no manager has found a system that allows them to both play in their favoured position.

People will always single out Lampard as the lesser of the 2 players because he doesn't run round like a headless chicken, doesn't give away stupid or dirty free kicks, but on the flipside Lampard doesn't quite have what Gerrard has in his locker which is what he showed tonight, the ability to step up and change a game in an instant. Also fans should remember that the England squad is supposed to be made up of players who are in form, well over the course of the last 5 seasons, Lampards scored 108 goals for Chelsea and 75 assists and won 8 trophies missing only 18 games in 5 seasons. Gerrards scored 91 goals in the same time, cannot find stats for assists and won 2 trophies in that time.

There is so little to choose from between the 2, Gerrard would be the pick of the 2 at the moment, but wasn't going into the world cup after his poorest season form wise for a good 6 or 7 years. Its a debate that will rumble until an England manager can make a decision to drop one or the other.

[andyjo1982]

CinqAbarth said:

They're both generally st for England, though.

Gerrard, for example, has only scored 1 goal against decent opposition and mostly looks out of his depth in an England shirt.

Hmmm, i wouldn't say out of his depth, but he has this knack of looking like a headless chicken when hes trying too hard for England. When he chases the game for Liverpool, he usually belts one in from 30 yards. But yes his goal record is nothing impressive.

[CinqAbarth]

andyjo1982 said:

CinqAbarth said:

They're both generally st for England, though.

Gerrard, for example, has only scored 1 goal against decent opposition and mostly looks out of his depth in an England shirt.

Hmmm, i wouldn't say out of his depth, but he has this knack of looking like a headless chicken when hes trying too hard for England. When he chases the game for Liverpool, he usually belts one in from 30 yards. But yes his goal record is nothing impressive.

IMHO, whenever his side are under pressure, Gerrard lets his head drop and runs around like an idiot.

He's a great player, on his day, but 'his day' relies on everything going well around him.

Which is why he's such a disaster as a captain.

[andyjo1982]

CinqAbarth said:

andyjo1982 said:

CinqAbarth said:

They're both generally st for England, though.

Gerrard, for example, has only scored 1 goal against decent opposition and mostly looks out of his depth in an England shirt.

Hmmm, i wouldn't say out of his depth, but he has this knack of looking like a headless chicken when hes trying too hard for England. When he chases the game for Liverpool, he usually belts one in from 30 yards. But yes his goal record is nothing impressive.

IMHO, whenever his side are under pressure, Gerrard lets his head drop and runs around like an idiot.

He's a great player, on his day, but 'his day' relies on everything going well around him.

Which is why he's such a disaster as a captain.

Think thats applicable in an England shirt but not for Liverpool, just seems to try too hard for England sometimes.

[im]

andyjo1982 said:

what Gerrard has in his locker...the ability to step up and change a game in an instant.

Sorry gonna call bullshine on that.

Tell me one IMPORTANT COMPETETIVE game against WORLD CLASS OPPOSITION where Stevie G has done this for England?

BTW - FF aint either.

Frankly, I'm fed up hearing how good these two are.

[ClintonB]

im said:

andyjo1982 said:

what Gerrard has in his locker...the ability to step up and change a game in an instant.

Sorry gonna call bullshine on that.

Tell me one IMPORTANT COMPETETIVE game against WORLD CLASS OPPOSITION where Stevie G has done this for England?

BTW - FF aint either.

Frankly, I'm fed up hearing how good these two are.

Not sure why I'm trying to support of them but to put things into perspective, how many other current international std & world class players have done this with any regularity in recent times?
It still happens at club level but it isn't really all that common at international level. Speed, tactics, fitness and organisation would appear to have the upper hand over raw ability at the moment and the spectre of the sheer volume of club matches has it's influence as well.

[andyjo1982]

im said:

andyjo1982 said:

what Gerrard has in his locker...the ability to step up and change a game in an instant.

Sorry gonna call bullshine on that.

Tell me one IMPORTANT COMPETETIVE game against WORLD CLASS OPPOSITION where Stevie G has done this for England?

BTW - FF aint either.

Frankly, I'm fed up hearing how good these two are.

Agreed, he hardly ever does it for England, remember he done it against Andorra a few years ago , but i meant in that sense for Liverpool. Thats why i started that post with why has it taken 8 years for him to play like that. Gerrard has never ever played for England on a consistent basis in a way that he plays for Liverpool, he doesn't show the same passion, when we score or when we're beaten. When Liverpool lose or are knocked out he takes it very personally, just doesn't show that sort of disappointment when England are beaten. Lampard was Englands best player at Euro 2004 and for most of 2005, he had a poor world cup in 06, but Gerrard didn't do much more. Hargreaves was probably our best player in 06. Since then neither has really excelled for England.

You may be fed up of hearing how good they are, but because of their dominance of these position for the last 6 years who else is there? look at the other midfield options, Carrick, Barry, Huddlestone, Parker, they are more defensive minded, there is, worryingly nobody English really coming through who can do what these 2 guys have done year after year for their clubs. As i said, just a shame they haven't been able to make it work for their country on a regular basis.