Thursday 12th August 2010

Mustangs And Camaros: You Know You Want To...

Because few things are more tempting than cheap US muscle...

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Our recent drive of the new Chevy Camaro and not-so-new Mustang GT500, as is almost inevitable when you get a go in such evocative icons of Americana, has got us hankering for more pony car action.

So - as is equally inevitable when you work for PH - a trawl through the classifieds for some of these cars' ancestors was called for.

Now, we won't pretend to know the intricate ins and outs of either model - during the past 40-or-so years that Camaros and Mustangs have been on planet earth there have been more model changes, special editions and engine options than the average human is capable of imagining.

Couple that with the fact that most 'Stangs and Camaros ('Maros?!) - especially the older ones - haven't exactly been kept in original factory spec by their various keepers, and it's pretty unlikely that you'll find two identical models.

So we've just picked a few that we like - you'll no doubt tell us where we've gone wrong or (hopefully) right!

As far as Camaros go, we spotted a 1969 Z28 up for £37,995 that we rather liked the look of. We'd ditch the flashy wheels and dubiously modified interior (where are those seats from?), but we'll keep the 510bhp power output, thank you very much.

Spooling forward a decade we came across this Smokey and the Bandit-era Camaro (yes, we know the Bandit drove a Pontiac Firebird) up for a couple of ponies under six grand. That's not very much really, for 7.4 litres of big-block goodness and a spec sheet that's as long as a long man's arm.

At the true budget end, you could go for a 'modern'. Provided you can put up with styling that only a mother could love, less than £5k will get you a nice 1990s Camaro with V8 power, while just £1500 will put you in a V6 model.

As for Mustangs, there is if anything even more choice. This immaculate £36k 1967 Mustang Fastback with a 289 cubic-inch motor rather took our fancy, but then again this 1969 Shelby GT350 (signed by the great man himself, no less) is a bit of a knee-wobbling device, even if it is a heavy £48,950.

The earliest of the 're-born' V8 Mustangs (2004 onwards) have held on to their values pretty well - this 55-plate GT model is still up for a whisker under £15k even after four years on the road. Of course, if that's too rich for your blood, you can get V8-flavoured Mustang fun for less than three grand, but you'll have to put up with the less-than-glam 1990s model for that...

[Motown Junk]

Yeah... but they're only good in a straight line, too big for our roads, 10mpg etc etc

[anything fast]

I have got a 2001 pontiac trans am, a very rare car as it was the run out model. A very different animal to the usual yank cars, ie it has plastic front wings, plastic tailgate, aluminium bonnet etc (all to make it much lighter than older cars). What makes mine very very rare is that it is a top spec WS6 RAM AIR with the LS1 5.7 aluminium block(most people will not know what this means). In short in stock trim it will do 0-60 in 4.9 and has a speed limiter at 165 mph. But thats not the end of the story, my car is running a wortec supercharger, chargecooler & intercooler. Runs big EBC brakes and has racecar spec suspension, It puts out 570 bhp and over 600 lb/ft. I have had many fast euro cars, M3, sierra cossie etc but this would anhilate almost anything on the road and i have to say it handles very well for yank and is very easy and relaxed to drive. My point is people knock yank cars all the time, but until you drive a proper muscle car you cant judge one!

[Justayellowbadge]

That £1500 V6 is a bonkers amount of car for the money if you care nothing for what people think of you.

[Fartgalen]

You know you want to ?

I just did.

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0... toy - Mustang GT 1997

[ewenm]

Must get my Mustang back on the road

[thehardman07]

Motown Junk said:

Yeah... but they're only good in a straight line, too big for our roads, 10mpg etc etc

Yeah, what do you know? Bet you have never owned or even driven a muscle car, your opinion is probably base on stereotypes, what somebody said down the pub etc etc

[Escort Si-130]

Too big for our roads??? What bullst. There are far more cars bigger than these on UK roads, many built in the EU.

Motown Junk said:

Yeah... but they're only good in a straight line, too big for our roads, 10mpg etc etc

[Garlick]

Escort Si-130 said:

Too big for our roads??? What bullst. There are far more cars bigger than these on UK roads, many built in the EU.

Motown Junk said:

Yeah... but they're only good in a straight line, too big for our roads, 10mpg etc etc

Err......

[Stu R]

Escort Si-130 said:

Too big for our roads??? What bullst. There are far more cars bigger than these on UK roads, many built in the EU.

Motown Junk said:

Yeah... but they're only good in a straight line, too big for our roads, 10mpg etc etc

Christ, talk about hook line and sinker.

[2manycars]

thehardman07 said:

Motown Junk said:

Yeah... but they're only good in a straight line, too big for our roads, 10mpg etc etc

Yeah, what do you know? Bet you have never owned or even driven a muscle car, your opinion is probably base on stereotypes, what somebody said down the pub etc etc

I totally agree, i had the pleasure of test driving the "Eleanor" GT500 from Amari Supercars a while ago, although it didn't have the supercar pedigree that the Italian counterparts have it did however put the biggest smile ever on my face.

The car was just one in a million, it sounded louder at idle than a Lambo with a few thousand revs on it's clock.

You can stand on deansgate on Manchester for 1 hour on a Saturday day and you'll see countless Ferraris, Lambos, Porsches and even the odd Roller but when do you ever see real American muscle cars and for that fact alone it's head and shoulders above the rest.

Everyones entitled to an opinion and this is just mine, so come on guys lets keep it civil.

Cheers

[soad]

Some great looking muscle cars to be found in the classifieds for sure.

[Robatr0n]

Motown Junk said:

Yeah... but they're only good in a straight line, too big for our roads, 10mpg etc etc

Pfft, please! What do you know?






P.S. Camaros are st.

[Stevie Mojo]

Escort Si-130 said:

Too big for our roads??? What bullst. There are far more cars bigger than these on UK roads, many built in the EU.

Motown Junk said:

Yeah... but they're only good in a straight line, too big for our roads, 10mpg etc etc

Ha read the post again, then check out his name and then have a look of the pic of his car.

[oxfordbiker]

That Shelby is heart-wrenchingly beautiful! I have a 1970 Dodge Challenger Vanishing Point rep undergoing a restoration at mo. which fingers crossed should be ready in new year... This would make the perfect 'evil twin' compliment

[anything fast]

pontiac was the real muscle car maker... the 1969 firebird trans am put out over 400 bhp and could pull 0-60 in under 5 seconds, no mustang or camaro ever made came close..... the 1971 trans am super duty had 7.4 litre big block over 330 bhp was the fastest accelerating american car until the corvette ZR1 came out (the late 80's one)!! in the early 90's you could buy a firehawk edition trans am with 400 bhp, 6 speed manual and 175 mph +) Trans ams were the first american production cars that took aerodynamics seriously, duck tail rear wing, wheelarch spats, front air dam, recessed wipers, aero mirrors, shaker hood with open induction channel (to suck low pressure air at the base of the windscreen). They may have been all part of GM but pontiac was a different company to chevrolet with different ideas. There is a lot to be said for american car design...

[Dagnut]

Lus1fer and 300bhp/per ton are the guys to speak too, both have encyclopaedic knowledge when it comes to US cars.

[MAD63]

The Camaro from the beginning are not a big car at all and mustangs were built on the Falcon Floor pan,again Not a big car. The Barge handling of American cars was the realm of the "luxobarge" . I recently did some repairs to a 58,000 mile 1960 Buick Electra. With 455 ft lbs of torque it has plenty of low end grunt and a top speed of ...120mph..LOL!! Even driving here on OZ's roads it fills a lane with little room on each side .Low speed corning is quite good but over 40mph the floaty suspension gives some really lurid tire noises and body angles.
http://picasaweb.google.com.au/mercmad6.3/1960Buic...
A major thing to watch for if buying an early Camaro is RUST. they rust like you wouldn't believe and that includes alleged California cars.

[RV8]

I love 70's American cars. I've always wanted an E body Barracuda.

I know this will go down like a lead ballon and I know replica ferraris etc are not popular, but there have been kit car shelby cobras for years, some versions of the kit seem to have a decent reputation, certainly some lotus 7 'type' kit cars deliver a good drivers package without much backlash. I have wondered why there doesn't seem to be any replica version of american classics.
I really think if you could buy a kit '69 camaro with a galvanized space frame chassis, coil-overs and a strong chevy V8 it'd be great, probably cheaper to run, maintain and quicker than a real equivalent - basically what I want is something like a chimera but with the shape of a muscle/pony car on top - plus you wouldn't notice a new blemish of rust breaking through the bodywork every time you wash it which is a problem with all the classics I've ever owned.

I wont beat around the bush, it's the look of muscle cars I like so I'm not about to start getting dewy eye'd about a 'proper classic' I grew up around old cars, a family member in particular was a big mopar fan, and I'd love a classic but classic yanks are (to me) hugely expensive now and it's a hobby I cant afford anymore and I have a fair idea how expensive it'd be to restore one which is not a cheaper option. Instead I started getting into 70's British cars but there is nothing over here from that era with styling which looks as good imo so it was always a massive compromise on looks and the type of engines ford gave us in europe were anything but muscle car orientated.

[Motown Junk]

This could be just what you want then

http://www.officialbaldwinmotion.com/home.htm

apart from cost though....

Edited by Motown Junk on Thursday 12th August 12:08

[Gary C]

Robatr0n said:

Motown Junk said:

Yeah... but they're only good in a straight line, too big for our roads, 10mpg etc etc

Pfft, please! What do you know?

P.S. Camaros are st.

Escort Si-130 said:

Too big for our roads??? What bullst. There are far more cars bigger than these on UK roads, many built in the EU.

Motown Junk said:

Yeah... but they're only good in a straight line, too big for our roads, 10mpg etc etc

thehardman07 said:

Motown Junk said:

Yeah... but they're only good in a straight line, too big for our roads, 10mpg etc etc

Yeah, what do you know? Bet you have never owned or even driven a muscle car, your opinion is probably base on stereotypes, what somebody said down the pub etc etc

We have a bite, and boy its a big one !

Hee Hee