Towing a trailer

[Jonboy_t]

A friend of mine is a very experienced IAD driving instructor, he does things like trianing police/fire/ambulance peoples etc and has been giving Advanced instruction for years now, so I've always thought he knows what he's talking about.

I was chatting to him the other day as I was looking at getting a towbar for my Bora and he has said that all modern drivers licences don't allow the holder to tow anything. So I can't go to the dump with a trailer, I can't go on holiday with a caravan (why would I?!) and I couldn't tow a boat.

2 pointed question around this;

1 - Is he talking crap?
2 - If he's right, where/how would I get a licence that allows me to do these apparently everyday things?!

[HellDiver]

If you got your licence before 1/1/97, then you can tow trailers. If you got your licence after 1/1/97, then you need to do a test. Same as driving 7.5 tonners - oldies like me can drive them no problems, youngsters are restricted to 3.5t without doing a test.

[Mr Will]

HellDiver said:

If you got your licence before 1/1/97, then you can tow trailers. If you got your licence after 1/1/97, then you need to do a test. Same as driving 7.5 tonners - oldies like me can drive them no problems, youngsters are restricted to 3.5t without doing a test.

Not quite correct, anyone who got their licence after 1/1/97 can tow a trailer as long as the trailer weighs less than the tow car and the whole rig weighs less than 3.5 tonnes. So what you can tow is pretty limited, but you can still tow.

[Jonboy_t]

Another DVLA screw over then?!!

I passed in 2000 so am outside, I've towed thousands (maybe exaggerated slightly) of times in the past and have never thought twice about it - I guess I would have been fined etc if I'd have been tugged by BiB in the psat then?

Would it be DVLA or local test station to enquire do you think?

ETA - Should have read the other 2 comments before replying! Cheers!

Edited by Jonboy_t on Friday 13th August 12:04

[kambites]

Mr Will said:

HellDiver said:

If you got your licence before 1/1/97, then you can tow trailers. If you got your licence after 1/1/97, then you need to do a test. Same as driving 7.5 tonners - oldies like me can drive them no problems, youngsters are restricted to 3.5t without doing a test.

Not quite correct, anyone who got their licence after 1/1/97 can tow a trailer as long as the trailer weighs less than the tow car and the whole rig weighs less than 3.5 tonnes. So what you can tow is pretty limited, but you can still tow.

Even that's not quite right. As I understand it, the combined MAM of the car and trailer must be under 3500kg and the MAM of the trailer must be less than the unladen weight of the car.

[Jonboy_t]

Would rental of a van be an extension of this towing rule?

I moved house a few months ago and rented a luton which fully loaded would have been considerably over 3.5 tons I would imagine. Should I not have done this/not do it in future without an upgrade?

[Jonboy_t]

doogz said:

Jonboy_t said:

Would rental of a van be an extension of this towing rule?

I moved house a few months ago and rented a luton which fully loaded would have been considerably over 3.5 tons I would imagine. Should I not have done this/not do it in future without an upgrade?

It should have had a gross weight of 3.5T or under. If it didn't, they shouldn't have let you take it.

Just been reading this on DVLA site and you're spot on mate. What an utter croc of ste that is!!

Mind you, rental companies wouldn't know what you're putting in the thing first would they, I would imagine a pretty detailed 'small print' area would cover this off!

[Bill]

Jonboy_t said:

Would rental of a van be an extension of this towing rule?

I moved house a few months ago and rented a luton which fully loaded would have been considerably over 3.5 tons I would imagine. Should I not have done this/not do it in future without an upgrade?

Nope, that's a straightforward overloading issue and is illegal no matter what licence you had.

[Jonboy_t]

Bill said:

Jonboy_t said:

Would rental of a van be an extension of this towing rule?

I moved house a few months ago and rented a luton which fully loaded would have been considerably over 3.5 tons I would imagine. Should I not have done this/not do it in future without an upgrade?

Nope, that's a straightforward overloading issue and is illegal no matter what licence you had.

But if the van had a max weight limit of, lets say, 5 tons, and I put 5 x 1 ton concrete blocks in it, I am within the load limits of the van, safely loaded (no overhangs etc). I would be within the limits of the van and rental agreement and the only 'illegality' of this would be the fact that I need an extra letter on my licence surely?

[Bill]

Jonboy_t said:

doogz said:

Jonboy_t said:

Would rental of a van be an extension of this towing rule?

I moved house a few months ago and rented a luton which fully loaded would have been considerably over 3.5 tons I would imagine. Should I not have done this/not do it in future without an upgrade?

It should have had a gross weight of 3.5T or under. If it didn't, they shouldn't have let you take it.

Just been reading this on DVLA site and you're spot on mate. What an utter croc of ste that is!!

Mind you, rental companies wouldn't know what you're putting in the thing first would they, I would imagine a pretty detailed 'small print' area would cover this off!

Erm, the hire firm let you have a 3.5T Luton because for all they know you might want to move a pile of feather duvets. It's not their fault if you overload it.

[Mr Will]

Jonboy_t said:

Bill said:

Jonboy_t said:

Would rental of a van be an extension of this towing rule?

I moved house a few months ago and rented a luton which fully loaded would have been considerably over 3.5 tons I would imagine. Should I not have done this/not do it in future without an upgrade?

Nope, that's a straightforward overloading issue and is illegal no matter what licence you had.

But if the van had a max weight limit of, lets say, 5 tons, and I put 5 x 1 ton concrete blocks in it, I am within the load limits of the van, safely loaded (no overhangs etc). I would be within the limits of the van and rental agreement and the only 'illegality' of this would be the fact that I need an extra letter on my licence surely?

The van will have had a max gross weight of 3.5 tonnes. Vans with a higher MGW are pretty rare and require a different class of licence.

[philmots]

A 7.5 tonne vehicle doesn't have a 7.5 tonne payload. It's 7.5t max weight, say it weighs 4 tonne unloaded then you have another 3.5 tonne that you can carry.

A van that you can drive on a basic car license (after 97) is up to 3.5t the van might weight 2t so you can carry 1.5t. Anything over the 3.5t including load is quite a serious ofence if you get pulled and weighed, and it's the sole responability of the driver, from a rental company or not. Ignorance isn't an excuse either.

[Bill]

doogz said:

It depends on the MAM of the vehicle. If it was a 3.5T, fair enough, he may have overloaded it, but not all of them are, if the MAM was greater than 3.5T, they shouldn't have let him take it.

Chances are the hire firm has a choice of 3.5 or 7.5 tonners and knows who can have which.

The OP said:

I moved house a few months ago and rented a luton which fully loaded would have been considerably over 3.5 tons I would imagine.

Just because you can shove a stload of crap in a van doesn't mean you should.

[Bill]

[supra legend]

The transport manager at the place I worked told me the newer licences allowed you to tow so long as the train weight did not exceed what the van could carry.

I was 17 then and went along with it, after a few years of towing trailers I found out it wasn't true.

Its amazing how many places don't mention this and ask you to tow stuff for them.

I have broken down and had a blowout on the trailer on the motorways, police assisted and nothing was said to me. Maybe I have just been lucky

[Jonboy_t]

doogz said:

Bill said:

doogz said:

It depends on the MAM of the vehicle. If it was a 3.5T, fair enough, he may have overloaded it, but not all of them are, if the MAM was greater than 3.5T, they shouldn't have let him take it.

Chances are the hire firm has a choice of 3.5 or 7.5 tonners and knows who can have which.

The OP said:

I moved house a few months ago and rented a luton which fully loaded would have been considerably over 3.5 tons I would imagine.

Just because you can shove a stload of crap in a van doesn't mean you should.

I agree, the point i was making was, with his licence, they shouldn't have given him anything more than a 3.5T'er.

He doesn't state the MAM of the vehicle they gave him, other than 'it might have weighed more'

I was just stating that they shouldn't have given him anything larger than a 3.5T, and as has been said, if he overfilled it, he's a very naughty boy!

Should I go and hand myself in now?!

Might not have overfilled it, didn't weigh everything as I put it in. What I did do, however, is make sure that everything was secured, safe and sensibly stacked.

[Bill]

On a related note a friend of mine (Yes, really) was chuffed to bits when he found an oversized 7.5T van going cheap as it meant he could fit more in it. It didn't occur to him until he got a test weigh-in at VOSA that sofa companies might legally be able to use a larger van because soft furnishings aren't that dense.

Thankfully if you volunteer for weighing VOSA are quite understanding

[mcdjl]

Off the trailer subject but on the van one I helped a friend move recently who has a 7.5T licence for work (ambulance tech) However being under 25 they weren't allowed to hire anything, however as I'm over 25 I could hire a 3.5T luton which was noticeably bigger than anything I've driven before. They did have 7.5T vehicles in the yard and they were significantly bigger- the 3.5T lutons vans i guess are usually transit (or similar) based while the 7.5T are dedicated lorry chassis.
As for the trailer test sounds like I might struggle- I'm never sure where the back end of it is though in my defence I'm not usually helped by having canoes on it which overhang the trailer by a couple of feet.

[Davi]

mcdjl said:

I'm never sure where the back end of it is though in my defence I'm not usually helped by having canoes on it which overhang the trailer by a couple of feet.

My trailer is small, I can't see it in any way shape or form when the car is straight, trailer has to be at about 30 deg to the car before it pops into a mirror, so I stuck flag posts on it that fold down beside the rear posts of the trailer, piece of piss! Then I borrowed my uncles trailer, massive bugger - so easy to reverse and judge in comparison, if I ever needed to do the test I'd use the biggest trailer I could hitch up I think!

[Jonboy_t]

doogz said:

mcdjl said:

As for the trailer test sounds like I might struggle- I'm never sure where the back end of it is though in my defence I'm not usually helped by having canoes on it which overhang the trailer by a couple of feet.

There is a line painted up the side of where you are reversing, with markers every foot, or half metre, i forget which.

As long as you measure the length of your vehicle and trailer before you leave, say, from the rear, to inline with your shoulder, it's pretty easy to get pretty close, and you're allowed to get out once you've stopped, and if you're not far enough back, you can shunt it back a bit. If you go too far though, and hit the board at the back of the hatched box, instant fail.

I think regardless of how much of a ball-ache it is that this test has to be done, it is definitely a good idea! Although I've towed loads historically, I think it would make me a much better driver to know that I'm either a) doing it right or b) going to kill someone eventually if I carry on!