spent £1200 on service wk later engine failed
Discussion
Hi,
I have a 52 renault Clio 172 which I took for a full service & Cam belt & auxillary belt change at a renault specialists in Newcastle at a cost of £1200
I week later the belt failed causing £1500 worth of engine damage
spoken to quite a few main dealers and they said the following:
"why didn't they spot the broken alternator pulley when the car was apart, i do these day in day out, you'd notice that even if you were blind, i'm betting money they've damaged the pulley putting the aux belt on, i see it all the time when garages who don't have the tools/experience work on them, but i' still yet to see an alternator cause a belt failure
i bet they didn't get the aux belt seated properly and it has shreded itself"
I was followed by someone from my home, then when I stopped at the shops the garage took there courtesy car back. I though the car had been stolen.
So me & my 2yr old daughter were stranded, I'm being polite & profession to try and get the issue resolved.
There are even holding my daughters kids seat until I return the key.
Do you think it's worth taking legal action or cut my losses and pay another garage to fit a new engine?
The garage won't except liability even if I get a independent inspection.
Then today I have just had a new invoice for £284 which was to find out the belt has shredded, and won't release the damaged car before I pay the invoice, as I plan to take somewhere else as I need my car to get to and from work.
The garage is in Newcastle
What should I do? Keen to get my car back on the road as I wanted to do a couple of trackdays before the summer ends... which could be now looking at the weather
Cheers Tom
Mod note, no name an shame please, have a read of this if you are unsure of what you can and can't post
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I have a 52 renault Clio 172 which I took for a full service & Cam belt & auxillary belt change at a renault specialists in Newcastle at a cost of £1200
I week later the belt failed causing £1500 worth of engine damage
spoken to quite a few main dealers and they said the following:
"why didn't they spot the broken alternator pulley when the car was apart, i do these day in day out, you'd notice that even if you were blind, i'm betting money they've damaged the pulley putting the aux belt on, i see it all the time when garages who don't have the tools/experience work on them, but i' still yet to see an alternator cause a belt failure
i bet they didn't get the aux belt seated properly and it has shreded itself"
I was followed by someone from my home, then when I stopped at the shops the garage took there courtesy car back. I though the car had been stolen.
So me & my 2yr old daughter were stranded, I'm being polite & profession to try and get the issue resolved.
There are even holding my daughters kids seat until I return the key.
Do you think it's worth taking legal action or cut my losses and pay another garage to fit a new engine?
The garage won't except liability even if I get a independent inspection.
Then today I have just had a new invoice for £284 which was to find out the belt has shredded, and won't release the damaged car before I pay the invoice, as I plan to take somewhere else as I need my car to get to and from work.
The garage is in Newcastle
What should I do? Keen to get my car back on the road as I wanted to do a couple of trackdays before the summer ends... which could be now looking at the weather
Cheers Tom
Mod note, no name an shame please, have a read of this if you are unsure of what you can and can't post
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Edited by Matt172 on Wednesday 18th August 18:08
Personally I wouldn't hesitate to contact the CAB/Trading Standards about this case,are they members of a trade organisation such as the MAA? ,if so contact the relevant trade body immediately and state your case.
If the above was not successful I would contact a solicitor re sueing them.
A reputable garage will probably have insurance cover for this sort of thing happening.If a solicitor is involved they know that you are serious about getting satisfaction and may just stop trying it on,unfortunately this type of problem is not confined to independents
but getting a satisfactory outcome is a lot easier with the importer breathing down their neck on your behalf!
Just a thought, if you paid by card inform the card company of the problem,again the pressure the card co can exert if you claim against them should ensure a speedy outcome to your problem.
HTH
If the above was not successful I would contact a solicitor re sueing them.
A reputable garage will probably have insurance cover for this sort of thing happening.If a solicitor is involved they know that you are serious about getting satisfaction and may just stop trying it on,unfortunately this type of problem is not confined to independents
but getting a satisfactory outcome is a lot easier with the importer breathing down their neck on your behalf!
Just a thought, if you paid by card inform the card company of the problem,again the pressure the card co can exert if you claim against them should ensure a speedy outcome to your problem.
HTH
I just cant believe how this garage has behaved,do they want to loose every customer in the area.They just can not keep your car under blackmail.I would go for this in every way possible,a nice story in the local paper for a start.Are you in the AA,RAC or what ever?,if so have a word,have a word with your insurance co,if you paid by credit card have a word with them,sue the nuts and bolts off them,do not let them get away with this!!If that happened to one of my customers I would be mortified,their car would be fixed free of charge no matter what caused the fault.I would then claim on my "cock up insurance" its part of every motor traders policy.
stevieturbo said:
You need to seek legal advice. And they absolutely cannot hold your car like that. Doing so is basically extortion.
Of course they can. They have a lien over the car until any bills have been paid. Until a court determines liability they are going to maintain it isn't their fault.To the OP.
If you want to sort this out properly you need to employ the services of a court accredited automotive expert witness to testify as to the cause of the problem. The opinion of other garages, main dealers or otherwise, is going to cut little ice with a District Judge. However the presumption is that a properly done repair should not fail within a week and if an expert witness can find a definitive cause of the failure you'll almost certainly win at a small claims hearing.
First thing to do is get your car back before the garage can obscure any physical evidence of the failure. To do this you'll just have to pay up. Mistake number one was to take the car back there.
I know of people who have had garages withhold their cars under similar, although perhaps not as bad circumstances. Police etc were involved, and the outcome was that the garage cannot hold the car.
The garage may own some parts fitted to the car, but thats it. They do not, and have little rights to prevent the owner from taking their car.
Preventing them from doing so, is bordering on theft, or for money extortion.
It reads that he has paid the full amount for work carried out. They are holding the car in lieu of payment for some dodgy inspection they claim to have done after the failure.
The garage may own some parts fitted to the car, but thats it. They do not, and have little rights to prevent the owner from taking their car.
Preventing them from doing so, is bordering on theft, or for money extortion.
It reads that he has paid the full amount for work carried out. They are holding the car in lieu of payment for some dodgy inspection they claim to have done after the failure.
Pumaracing said:
stevieturbo said:
You need to seek legal advice. And they absolutely cannot hold your car like that. Doing so is basically extortion.
Of course they can. They have a lien over the car until any bills have been paid. Until a court determines liability they are going to maintain it isn't their fault.To the OP.
If you want to sort this out properly you need to employ the services of a court accredited automotive expert witness to testify as to the cause of the problem. The opinion of other garages, main dealers or otherwise, is going to cut little ice with a District Judge. However the presumption is that a properly done repair should not fail within a week and if an expert witness can find a definitive cause of the failure you'll almost certainly win at a small claims hearing.
First thing to do is get your car back before the garage can obscure any physical evidence of the failure. To do this you'll just have to pay up. Mistake number one was to take the car back there.
Pay up, don't get into an argument, get ALL of your stuff back, then go about gathering the evidence to win conclusively. And when you have won, call Trading Standards.
Playing Devils Advocate for a moment! (I have no link to either party.)
There is always 2 sides to every story and I am suprised the Mods have not pulled up the OP under the naming & shaming policy.
Unless I have missed something (always a possibility) how has a failed aux belt damaged the engine? A Cam belt I could understand but the postings talk about the aux belt. I am not familiar with the Clio set up so could someone explain? What is the damaged this has caused?
I do hope you get it sorted but take some proper considered advice before you do anything else. The Red Mist will not help and forums can fan the flames. As always, Puma R seems to have given the most considered advice and worth listerning too.
Good luck.
There is always 2 sides to every story and I am suprised the Mods have not pulled up the OP under the naming & shaming policy.
Unless I have missed something (always a possibility) how has a failed aux belt damaged the engine? A Cam belt I could understand but the postings talk about the aux belt. I am not familiar with the Clio set up so could someone explain? What is the damaged this has caused?
I do hope you get it sorted but take some proper considered advice before you do anything else. The Red Mist will not help and forums can fan the flames. As always, Puma R seems to have given the most considered advice and worth listerning too.
Good luck.
Paul.B said:
Unless I have missed something (always a possibility) how has a failed aux belt damaged the engine? A Cam belt I could understand but the postings talk about the aux belt. I am not familiar with the Clio set up so could someone explain? What is the damaged this has caused?
It's possible on some cars for a broken auxiliary belt to get wrapped up behind the crank pulley and take out the timing belt. It's a known problem on my car which is why I replace the auxiliary belts well before their recommended service interval.Just to let the OP know how this process works I was involved in a similar case about 12 years ago with a Lancia Gamma flat four. The owner had taken the car to his local Lancia specialist for the cambelts to be changed. After this a light tapping noise could be heard and then shortly after one cylinder failed. The owner immediately had the car trailered to another Lancia specialist and being generalists rather than engine experts they appointed me to do a forensic strip down of the engine to determine what had happened.
It didn't take long to find out that the cambelts had both been timed in relative to the ignition timing mark on the flywheel at 30 degrees before TDC rather than the actual TDC mark. Unfortunately the monkey at the first garage hadn't realised the flywheel had two marks and only one of these was the correct one for cam timing. With the cam timing 30 degrees too far advanced the inlet valves were just hitting the pistons and this bent the valves and caused a rocker to snap.
The garage then notified their insurance company who sent out their own expert to liase with me but he wasn't here for more than 5 minutes before agreeing the diagnosis and accepting the garage were liable. It all got sorted out fairly quickly after that.
Without knowing exactly what has happened in your case it's not possible to attribute blame but the court will want to hear from an expert if it goes that far however I suspect the garage will also just put the matter through their insurance if you have an expert opinion that they are at fault.
It didn't take long to find out that the cambelts had both been timed in relative to the ignition timing mark on the flywheel at 30 degrees before TDC rather than the actual TDC mark. Unfortunately the monkey at the first garage hadn't realised the flywheel had two marks and only one of these was the correct one for cam timing. With the cam timing 30 degrees too far advanced the inlet valves were just hitting the pistons and this bent the valves and caused a rocker to snap.
The garage then notified their insurance company who sent out their own expert to liase with me but he wasn't here for more than 5 minutes before agreeing the diagnosis and accepting the garage were liable. It all got sorted out fairly quickly after that.
Without knowing exactly what has happened in your case it's not possible to attribute blame but the court will want to hear from an expert if it goes that far however I suspect the garage will also just put the matter through their insurance if you have an expert opinion that they are at fault.
go to the CAB and trading standards. This is a simple case of extortion. It will cost you £70.00 at the local county court office to apply for an injunction forcing them to release your property or get carted off in hand cuffs. Get a lawyer and let them know that they will be getting the bill for his services in the end. Basically just raise the stakes so they know you are not scared of them and intend to take them to the cleaners. Once they find out how much it will cost to defend the case, which they will lose anyway, they will s
t themselves and realise your not some mug that's just going to pay up.
t themselves and realise your not some mug that's just going to pay up.Whats the bill for £284 for exactly have they removed the cylinder head already??
Could be hard to prove it was their fault if they have already stripped it as anything they did wrong will have been covered up by now.
I know it will be a bitter pill to swallow but im not sure you will have much chance of winning this one & even if you do it may cost more to take it through the courts than it will cost to repair the car.
Its a sorry situation but if you choose the legal route it will be a long time before your car is returned to you & there is a risk it could be damaged more so.
Imao you have been treated terribly & im amazed the place can stay in business with customer service like this. At the garage i work at we have liabilty insurance for when things happen which they inevitibly do now & again & would never dream of treating a customer like this. Iroicnally one of the best customers i have ever had (brings many cars in also sends a lot of friends & family in) is as a result of how he was treated when we made a mistake with his cambelt & had to put it right
Could be hard to prove it was their fault if they have already stripped it as anything they did wrong will have been covered up by now.
I know it will be a bitter pill to swallow but im not sure you will have much chance of winning this one & even if you do it may cost more to take it through the courts than it will cost to repair the car.
Its a sorry situation but if you choose the legal route it will be a long time before your car is returned to you & there is a risk it could be damaged more so.
Imao you have been treated terribly & im amazed the place can stay in business with customer service like this. At the garage i work at we have liabilty insurance for when things happen which they inevitibly do now & again & would never dream of treating a customer like this. Iroicnally one of the best customers i have ever had (brings many cars in also sends a lot of friends & family in) is as a result of how he was treated when we made a mistake with his cambelt & had to put it right
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