More ecu softeware readouts... help required. (Redeye)
Discussion
I was over at Redeyes this weekend with the laptop trying to determine a fault with his Cerb. And just want some input from the PH crew on some of the screen shots that were taken.
Click 'view image' for a slightly larger version...
Fault codes after they were reset...
And a couple with the engine off..
All through out Lambda 2 hardly moved a muscle where as Lambda 1 was flicking between the 0.0 and 0.02
The car would idle by itself to start with but after resetting the fault codes Terry had to keep his foot on the throttle to keep the car running so all readings are around the 15-2000 rpm mark.
Click 'view image' for a slightly larger version...
Fault codes after they were reset...
And a couple with the engine off..
All through out Lambda 2 hardly moved a muscle where as Lambda 1 was flicking between the 0.0 and 0.02
The car would idle by itself to start with but after resetting the fault codes Terry had to keep his foot on the throttle to keep the car running so all readings are around the 15-2000 rpm mark.
Edited by Mad Mark on Sunday 22 August 14:34
Both lambda sensors should be alternating between 1.0v and 0.2v around once per second. If they are not doing this then there is a problem either with the sensors or the wiring to them.
Apart from that your throttle pots are poorly balanced - I would be looking for them to be pretty close at idle or with the engine off. Your adaptives at idle are far too high though whether that's indicative of a lambda sensor problem is hard to say.
Have you worked your way through the throttle pot setup procedure in the engine section of the workshop manual? I would do that first and see if you can eliminate one problem at a time.
Apart from that your throttle pots are poorly balanced - I would be looking for them to be pretty close at idle or with the engine off. Your adaptives at idle are far too high though whether that's indicative of a lambda sensor problem is hard to say.
Have you worked your way through the throttle pot setup procedure in the engine section of the workshop manual? I would do that first and see if you can eliminate one problem at a time.
The Car was apparently running fine then over night developed a fault (I am sure redeye will be along soon to say exactly what happened and the symptoms) I believe there was heavy rain that night also as there was water around the ecu and connectors which he has dried out!
My thinking was possibly a lambda sensor was faulty as no2 was hardly moving at all very occasionally showing a 0.01 but no more, where as Lambda 1 was fluctuating around 0.02 but not really much higher than 0.02
My thinking was possibly a lambda sensor was faulty as no2 was hardly moving at all very occasionally showing a 0.01 but no more, where as Lambda 1 was fluctuating around 0.02 but not really much higher than 0.02
what mark has said regarding the faults are correct ,no running probs on sunday parked up till thursday heavy rain in week thursday night start car Mill lights on car running s*it,check ecu conections wet dry out with hair dryer re fitt, mil light goes off, car still running bad ,only had car since 10 july running fine no probs .As you sit in a cerb is it left bank 1 and right bank 2 ,if you unplug the right hand tp conector the engine stalls now if yo do the same to the left she still run (lumpy) but runs
when we unpluged the left hand TP she still ran the right hand she stopped ,so is this saying right ok running both sides?, unplug right TP, bad engine stops, TP left side bad??
would this give a bad right hand or no2 lambda reading?
does the ecu print out go along with this ??
can we ajust the TP now, glow the lambdas bright red with heat gun to clean them and all be reset??
is there a link on here for the reset of the TP as i dont have this .
again thanks for the help. Terry
would this give a bad right hand or no2 lambda reading?
does the ecu print out go along with this ??
can we ajust the TP now, glow the lambdas bright red with heat gun to clean them and all be reset??
is there a link on here for the reset of the TP as i dont have this .
again thanks for the help. Terry
Edited by redeye on Monday 23 August 07:41
There are several inter-related factors that affect the running which makes it a balancing act to get them all right. If one factor changes then others will change too. The only sensible way to approach it is by ensuring each is working right then setting things up together.
If the voltage on a lambda sensor is not alternating between 1 volt and 0.2 volts when it is up to operating temperature then it is definitely not working correctly. Blowtorching the end may fix it, it may not - it has to be worth a try given its free!
Your throttle pot balance is not right as evidence the difference in the readings although my guess would be that neither is far enough out to stop the car running on its own. That can be due to either the adjustment on the TP its self or the link rod between banks.
The fact that it will run with one TP unplugged but not the other implies that there is a problem using the reading from the TP that is left plugged in. In theory if the readings from both TPs were he same then unplugging one should make no difference to the running. It could be a bad TP or a bad lambda sensor or a combination of the two (or bad setup).
Personally I would do the following;
Given that you can correct and initially set up the TPs without the engine running I would be tempted to do that first then you can eliminate it as a possible cause. The procedure is in the engine section of the workshop manual. This should throw up any problem with the TPs or wiring to them.
Once I knew it wasn't throttle balance I would blowtorch the lambdas, make sure they are plugged in the right way round and then verify that they are at least fluctuating in voltage when the engine is up to temperature. (if its difficult keeping it running you can adjust the idle screw on the drivers side throttle body) If the voltage is still not fluctuating then I would start replacing lambda sensors.
If the voltage on a lambda sensor is not alternating between 1 volt and 0.2 volts when it is up to operating temperature then it is definitely not working correctly. Blowtorching the end may fix it, it may not - it has to be worth a try given its free!
Your throttle pot balance is not right as evidence the difference in the readings although my guess would be that neither is far enough out to stop the car running on its own. That can be due to either the adjustment on the TP its self or the link rod between banks.
The fact that it will run with one TP unplugged but not the other implies that there is a problem using the reading from the TP that is left plugged in. In theory if the readings from both TPs were he same then unplugging one should make no difference to the running. It could be a bad TP or a bad lambda sensor or a combination of the two (or bad setup).
Personally I would do the following;
Given that you can correct and initially set up the TPs without the engine running I would be tempted to do that first then you can eliminate it as a possible cause. The procedure is in the engine section of the workshop manual. This should throw up any problem with the TPs or wiring to them.
Once I knew it wasn't throttle balance I would blowtorch the lambdas, make sure they are plugged in the right way round and then verify that they are at least fluctuating in voltage when the engine is up to temperature. (if its difficult keeping it running you can adjust the idle screw on the drivers side throttle body) If the voltage is still not fluctuating then I would start replacing lambda sensors.
If the mixture is too far out (and yours is nearly maxed out) then the lambda won't fluctuate. I recently changed both my lambdas and found that initially they weren't moving at all, or very little - 0.1 v or so. It was only when I started playing with the mixture that I managed to get the lambdas to bounce as they should do and it now runs better than ever.
I'd agree with the above. I'd wager you are just miles out. Your adaptives are maxxed and you still aren't stoichometric (lambdas bouncing), and there is nothing more the ECU can do to compensate.
I'd do two things.
1. clear the adaptive tables for both banks.
2. reset Tpots to both be around 19% on idle. At the moment you are reading 13.7 on one bank at zero throttle, that's way too low!
Now try starting again. Watch what happens. If the lambdas stay at 0 and the adaptives keep climbing up to that 30% mark, then a) I'd be surprised if they get all the way to 30, and b) something is amiss. At the moment I think your TPots are just underreading so much that it can't compensate.
Once you can get the lambdas doing something sensible, you can then interperate the adaptive values and use them to tune the car properly. At the moment it's just too far off to do that
I'd do two things.
1. clear the adaptive tables for both banks.
2. reset Tpots to both be around 19% on idle. At the moment you are reading 13.7 on one bank at zero throttle, that's way too low!
Now try starting again. Watch what happens. If the lambdas stay at 0 and the adaptives keep climbing up to that 30% mark, then a) I'd be surprised if they get all the way to 30, and b) something is amiss. At the moment I think your TPots are just underreading so much that it can't compensate.
Once you can get the lambdas doing something sensible, you can then interperate the adaptive values and use them to tune the car properly. At the moment it's just too far off to do that
Edited by stuthemong on Monday 23 August 21:00
thanks for all the help ,2moro i get the new leads for laptop to ecu ,got the soft wear ,
had the feed back from the helpfull chaps on here ,
i think im going with a TP reset ,lamda roasting ,then see were we are ,i will post my findings so you can all see were i went wrong no hopfully were you all fixed my car .
fingers crossed
had the feed back from the helpfull chaps on here ,
i think im going with a TP reset ,lamda roasting ,then see were we are ,i will post my findings so you can all see were i went wrong no hopfully were you all fixed my car .
fingers crossed
up to date bits,
mark and my self rest TP yesterday ,car runs on its own at 1000rpm drives well ,after about 1/2 hour of driving around lambda no2 starts to flicker,tock her out for a good run today all good .marks going to post new ecu pics .
found out water had leaked in to car above ecu,wiper switching unit and othe relecs on pass footwell,
switcher unit dead ,ecu wet ,leak now sorted, ecu dry,
going to book car in for a tune up austecs are looking good at mo ,might go for levens ,dont know were to go im based in chelmsford ,any idears wellcomed.
thanks to all for there help. TERRY
mark and my self rest TP yesterday ,car runs on its own at 1000rpm drives well ,after about 1/2 hour of driving around lambda no2 starts to flicker,tock her out for a good run today all good .marks going to post new ecu pics .
found out water had leaked in to car above ecu,wiper switching unit and othe relecs on pass footwell,
switcher unit dead ,ecu wet ,leak now sorted, ecu dry,
going to book car in for a tune up austecs are looking good at mo ,might go for levens ,dont know were to go im based in chelmsford ,any idears wellcomed.
thanks to all for there help. TERRY
redeye said:
up to date bits,
mark and my self rest TP yesterday ,car runs on its own at 1000rpm drives well ,after about 1/2 hour of driving around lambda no2 starts to flicker,tock her out for a good run today all good .marks going to post new ecu pics .
found out water had leaked in to car above ecu,wiper switching unit and othe relecs on pass footwell,
switcher unit dead ,ecu wet ,leak now sorted, ecu dry,
going to book car in for a tune up austecs are looking good at mo ,might go for levens ,dont know were to go im based in chelmsford ,any idears wellcomed.
thanks to all for there help. TERRY
Hi Telmark and my self rest TP yesterday ,car runs on its own at 1000rpm drives well ,after about 1/2 hour of driving around lambda no2 starts to flicker,tock her out for a good run today all good .marks going to post new ecu pics .
found out water had leaked in to car above ecu,wiper switching unit and othe relecs on pass footwell,
switcher unit dead ,ecu wet ,leak now sorted, ecu dry,
going to book car in for a tune up austecs are looking good at mo ,might go for levens ,dont know were to go im based in chelmsford ,any idears wellcomed.
thanks to all for there help. TERRY
glad to see you got a cerbera in the end.hi mark and traceyEd
Edited by Eddie 4 2 on Monday 30th August 22:12
As Terry said we reset the pots and the car started fine and held its own.
We set them before even starting the car so in hindsight we should have started the car to see how it run before fiddling with it.
We decided to take the car for a run and the pics below were taken while on the move.
I didn't reset the adaptives as the car drove ok. I did reset the fault codes but both banks still showed air flow faults.
After a short while driving Lambda 2 started showing signs of life flicking between 0.00 and 0.01 fairly regular where as lambda 1 was flicking around 0.02
We set them before even starting the car so in hindsight we should have started the car to see how it run before fiddling with it.
We decided to take the car for a run and the pics below were taken while on the move.
I didn't reset the adaptives as the car drove ok. I did reset the fault codes but both banks still showed air flow faults.
After a short while driving Lambda 2 started showing signs of life flicking between 0.00 and 0.01 fairly regular where as lambda 1 was flicking around 0.02
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