Discussion
It's alive!!! Albeit brief...
Still lots of electrical work and adjustments ahead, but the LS7 came to life yesterday. I shut it down immediately, because a giant plume of something blew out the exhaust. Apparently, something that loved seeds had been using the left silencer as a dining room. There must have been a pound of shells scattered over 10 feet behind the car! It was hilarious. Ran it last night for about a minute. More video to follow.
To the folks at Ultima, PistonHeads, and the US Ultima site -- Thank you! It's been a long time coming...and I want you all to know that I probably never would have taken on this project without the support and knowledge you bunch of G-force junkies have given me over the years. No sweeter sound has a car ever made!
Still lots of electrical work and adjustments ahead, but the LS7 came to life yesterday. I shut it down immediately, because a giant plume of something blew out the exhaust. Apparently, something that loved seeds had been using the left silencer as a dining room. There must have been a pound of shells scattered over 10 feet behind the car! It was hilarious. Ran it last night for about a minute. More video to follow.
To the folks at Ultima, PistonHeads, and the US Ultima site -- Thank you! It's been a long time coming...and I want you all to know that I probably never would have taken on this project without the support and knowledge you bunch of G-force junkies have given me over the years. No sweeter sound has a car ever made!
I am WELL JEALOUS Scott!
Congrats - bit like having a new baby! (Well! ..your female partner..that is! - unless there is something you need to tell me!
)
Like you, I am sure, I have been dreaming for years, of the day my LS7 engine breaths its first breath of Life!
It is a very long road, but when it happens - you get a broad smile from ear to ear, that lasts all day!
Problem is that my wife does not share my enthusiasm, thinks the beast is dangerous, thinks I am mad, and has vowed never to get in it! SHAME! - but do I care???? Well---only a little!
Fo me, I hope to turn the key for the first time in about a week, however, that will be just to see if the starter motor works, and the engine actually turns over with no plugs! - Then once the wiring is checked to make sure nothing can ctch fire or short, I will be following you in your tracks!
CAN'T WAIT!
Well Done chap!
Keith
Congrats - bit like having a new baby! (Well! ..your female partner..that is! - unless there is something you need to tell me!
)Like you, I am sure, I have been dreaming for years, of the day my LS7 engine breaths its first breath of Life!
It is a very long road, but when it happens - you get a broad smile from ear to ear, that lasts all day!
Problem is that my wife does not share my enthusiasm, thinks the beast is dangerous, thinks I am mad, and has vowed never to get in it! SHAME! - but do I care???? Well---only a little!
Fo me, I hope to turn the key for the first time in about a week, however, that will be just to see if the starter motor works, and the engine actually turns over with no plugs! - Then once the wiring is checked to make sure nothing can ctch fire or short, I will be following you in your tracks!
CAN'T WAIT!
Well Done chap!
Keith
V8 Vum said:
I am WELL JEALOUS Scott!
Congrats - bit like having a new baby! (Well! ..your female partner..that is! - unless there is something you need to tell me!)
My wife would say the GTR is definitely my mistress in red!Congrats - bit like having a new baby! (Well! ..your female partner..that is! - unless there is something you need to tell me!
)V8 Vum said:
Like you, I am sure, I have been dreaming for years, of the day my LS7 engine breaths its first breath of Life!
It is a very long road, but when it happens - you get a broad smile from ear to ear, that lasts all day!
It's been 5 years and 13 days from delivery to engine start. The first year, everything sat in the crate while I put the shop together. I have to tell you, I am not that patient! I'm smiling now just thinking about it.It is a very long road, but when it happens - you get a broad smile from ear to ear, that lasts all day!
V8 Vum said:
Problem is that my wife does not share my enthusiasm, thinks the beast is dangerous, thinks I am mad, and has vowed never to get in it! SHAME! - but do I care???? Well---only a little!
Once she sees how much you enjoy it, you might win her over. Don't burn rubber around the neighborhood. Keep the RPMs down (yeah, right) and don't scare her. I got lucky in that department... My wife rebuilt an engine in middle school as a shop class project and had a 1966 Plymouth Barracuda daily driver. She drives our Honda Civic now, though she still likes examples of well-engineered, high-performance autos.The wife still thinks I am crazy and is probably right. They say the definition of crazy is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different outcome. I think the converse is true for anything mechanical. Expecting the same outcome each and every time I exceed 100mph is crazy, yet I expect to do it over and over and...
V8 Vum said:
For me, I hope to turn the key for the first time in about a week, however, that will be just to see if the starter motor works, and the engine actually turns over with no plugs! - Then once the wiring is checked to make sure nothing can ctch fire or short, I will be following you in your tracks!
CAN'T WAIT!
Well Done chap!
Keith
Thanks, Keith. Had those seed shells not blown out the exhaust, I would have made a longer video. That was scary and funny. It's really great when the engine kicks off for the first time. This is the first "complete car" I have built; a major undertaking for this guy. Still, I have a lot of details to finish before driving, but the potential has been realized and I am chomping at the bit!CAN'T WAIT!
Well Done chap!
Keith
Sound's like you'll be there very soon. As I did, keep a fire extinguisher handy with the pin pulled. After you've filled the tanks with fuel, reality sets in and your only moments away. Let them run, and check the fuel system for leaks when you turn on the pumps.
Make sure you get plenty of oil in the sump, block, and oil filter. I used 10 qts. with a cooler, slightly larger sump, and a 1-qt. remote oil filter. My buddy, Jay, installed a pre-oiler for start-up that works just like a temporary Accusump to pressurize the oil system.
I put about 14 qts. of 70/30 coolant in the system. That's all it would take cold.
Also, make sure there's nothing near the exhaust that can melt or ignite. Zip-tie everything away from the spinning bits, too.
At running later in the evening, there was some lifter noise around 2,000 rpm, but I am told it can take a few minutes for the lifters to pump up after sitting for many years. I ran it for less than a minute.
Good luck, Keith. Be sure to record the start for all to enjoy.
Actually all this brings me to another subject ref starting!
Having no real experience with the LS7, but with all engines that have been lying around for quite some time before the first start, the concern is how to make sure all the bearings and flappy bits are oiled before the thing roars into life, thus avoiding excessive wear in the first few minutes!
Some appear to be using a pre oiler, and I know that Accusump was a favorite with the SBCs. And indeed there is wiring on the Ultima loom for such a thing (and I cut this off thinking I would not need it- damn!)
I have not heard of anyone using an accusump on an LS7 here (unless I am told different).
I did some trawling and interestingly, some corvette owner are indeed going down the accusump or pre oiler route.
So, can I get away without using/installing yet another expensive bit of machinery, and if so, how can I be sure that all the bits are suitably soaked in oil before starting for the first time (and later if it is layed up for say a winter!).
Otherwise, what is the best solution? Buy (Oh No! not more money!) an accusump (which one) or some other devillish pre-oiling unit?
Advice please?
cheers
keith
Having no real experience with the LS7, but with all engines that have been lying around for quite some time before the first start, the concern is how to make sure all the bearings and flappy bits are oiled before the thing roars into life, thus avoiding excessive wear in the first few minutes!
Some appear to be using a pre oiler, and I know that Accusump was a favorite with the SBCs. And indeed there is wiring on the Ultima loom for such a thing (and I cut this off thinking I would not need it- damn!)
I have not heard of anyone using an accusump on an LS7 here (unless I am told different).
I did some trawling and interestingly, some corvette owner are indeed going down the accusump or pre oiler route.
So, can I get away without using/installing yet another expensive bit of machinery, and if so, how can I be sure that all the bits are suitably soaked in oil before starting for the first time (and later if it is layed up for say a winter!).
Otherwise, what is the best solution? Buy (Oh No! not more money!) an accusump (which one) or some other devillish pre-oiling unit?
Advice please?
cheers
keith
V8 Vum said:
Actually all this brings me to another subject ref starting!
Having no real experience with the LS7, but with all engines that have been lying around for quite some time before the first start, the concern is how to make sure all the bearings and flappy bits are oiled before the thing roars into life, thus avoiding excessive wear in the first few minutes!
Some appear to be using a pre oiler, and I know that Accusump was a favorite with the SBCs. And indeed there is wiring on the Ultima loom for such a thing (and I cut this off thinking I would not need it- damn!)
I have not heard of anyone using an accusump on an LS7 here (unless I am told different).
I did some trawling and interestingly, some corvette owner are indeed going down the accusump or pre oiler route.
So, can I get away without using/installing yet another expensive bit of machinery, and if so, how can I be sure that all the bits are suitably soaked in oil before starting for the first time (and later if it is layed up for say a winter!).
Otherwise, what is the best solution? Buy (Oh No! not more money!) an accusump (which one) or some other devillish pre-oiling unit?
Advice please?
cheers
keith
The list of stuff above regarding engine start was my check list. They say it's better to error on the side of caution, ay? Maybe I should have done something else, as well, but couldn't think of it at the time. Having no real experience with the LS7, but with all engines that have been lying around for quite some time before the first start, the concern is how to make sure all the bearings and flappy bits are oiled before the thing roars into life, thus avoiding excessive wear in the first few minutes!
Some appear to be using a pre oiler, and I know that Accusump was a favorite with the SBCs. And indeed there is wiring on the Ultima loom for such a thing (and I cut this off thinking I would not need it- damn!)
I have not heard of anyone using an accusump on an LS7 here (unless I am told different).
I did some trawling and interestingly, some corvette owner are indeed going down the accusump or pre oiler route.
So, can I get away without using/installing yet another expensive bit of machinery, and if so, how can I be sure that all the bits are suitably soaked in oil before starting for the first time (and later if it is layed up for say a winter!).
Otherwise, what is the best solution? Buy (Oh No! not more money!) an accusump (which one) or some other devillish pre-oiling unit?
Advice please?
cheers
keith
When starting the engine is imminent, it's easy to get excited and forget or skip an important item (like checking the oil, or your exhaust for critters in my case). So, write down the steps and check them off before turning the key. The "check list" mentality comes from flying. It's a good habit for pilots and translates well for other mechanical applications.
The Moroso 23930 accumulator is US$65 (without hoses or fittings) and holds 1.5 qts. of oil. So, it's not too expensive to build yourself a pre-oiler for start-up. It's plumbed into the galley just behind the alternator (blue hose). Sorry about the lighting:
Here's the can:
All you do is put the oil in the tank and pressurize with air. As soon as you put the air in, you have about 30-45 seconds of oil pressure. There are no fancy valves required for the start-up procedure. You can add valves, if you want to mount the can and use as a pre-oiler for every start. I don't think it's required for a dry-sump, but it couldn't hurt (on the side of caution).
By the way, Canton makes a very nice take-off for a remote oil filter that fits the LS7. The LS7 uses a 22mmx1.5mm thread filter with a 2.675" gasket. This happens to be the same as a FORD. So, this fitting was the spec for a Ford engine.
I made a plate to mount the remote oil filter on the forward side of the left motor mount bracing. Shorter filters are available. This is a full quart size. I also plan on adding a short deflector (2" at about 20 degrees) at the rear edge of the cabin cross-member to aid in preventing flying debris from entering the engine compartment.
Edited by Builder on Tuesday 24th August 20:35
Pre oiling just as relevant with a dry sump. 80% of engine wears occurs at start up. pre oiling will help reduce this. An accusump wired to just provide pre oiling would be worth the expense although the Moroso device looks pretty good for the cost. I would say pre oiling is vital if your engine has been stood for as long as you say.
Hugger Z said:
Builder said:
Hugger Z said:
Looking good Scott! Glad to see it fire up!
Thanks, Tony. How's that clutch holding up? Seems you've been putting some power to it.
MarkWebb said:
Pre oiling just as relevant with a dry sump. 80% of engine wears occurs at start up. pre oiling will help reduce this. An accusump wired to just provide pre oiling would be worth the expense although the Moroso device looks pretty good for the cost. I would say pre oiling is vital if your engine has been stood for as long as you say.
Yeah, I would tend to agree...especially after sitting a while. You would think all engines would come with a pre-oiler as standard. I have an Accusump and will probably add it later...when I can find a spot. The remote filter setup has 4 ports on it, with 3 currently used.Keith, it sounds like you've done some research. How are other folks connecting the accumulators? And, are they all using electric valves?
not sure if I understand the principle of the accusump right but I personally would say though it can build up oil pressure it would still fail to lubricate the
internal engine parts. This can only happen while cranking and turning everything.
So if you want to be sure you would have to delay the time before the engine is firing up.
Actually my DTAFAST ECU is not firing the engine right away but let it do a few turns.
internal engine parts. This can only happen while cranking and turning everything.
So if you want to be sure you would have to delay the time before the engine is firing up.
Actually my DTAFAST ECU is not firing the engine right away but let it do a few turns.
spatz said:
not sure if I understand the principle of the accusump right but I personally would say though it can build up oil pressure it would still fail to lubricate the
internal engine parts. This can only happen while cranking and turning everything.
So if you want to be sure you would have to delay the time before the engine is firing up.
Actually my DTAFAST ECU is not firing the engine right away but let it do a few turns.
I think the idea is that, without an accumulator, it takes a couple of seconds to build pressure. The accumulator offers pressurized lubrication at the moment the key is turned, thus, eliminating an opportunity for abrasive damage. The pressure might not be circulated throughout the entire engine, but using an Accusump probably reduces friction through a major portion.internal engine parts. This can only happen while cranking and turning everything.
So if you want to be sure you would have to delay the time before the engine is firing up.
Actually my DTAFAST ECU is not firing the engine right away but let it do a few turns.
My question is, with regards to the LS7, how do you best plumb an Accusump? There are three possibilities on my seutp; where I currently have the pre-oiler (pictured above), through the remote oil filter, or possibly into the return line from the sump. There are two pumps in the LS7. Is there a suggested location from the factory for the LS7?
Added another brief video. No revs yet; just checking for leaks.
Biggest problem for standing engines is their storage environment....moisture/humidity and temp changes = surface corrosion over time ......can be a real party-killer when first cranking after a lay-up.......dont order till you really need it!!
Good to hear your progress Scott.
Good to hear your progress Scott.
Edited by 738 driver on Thursday 26th August 23:10
738 driver said:
Biggest problem for standing engines is their storage environment....moisture/humidity and temp changes = surface corrosion over time ......can be a real party-killer when first cranking after a lay-up.......dont order till you really need it!!
Good to hear your progress Scott.
Thanks and agreed. Don't order it until you need it...till you really need it. My engine showed up before the Ultima and it took me almost 5 years, to the day, to light the fire. Longer than many, but not as long as some. Luckily, it's a dry environment here in the high desert. I also spun the crank by hand frequently to keep things loose.Good to hear your progress Scott.
Edited by 738 driver on Thursday 26th August 23:10
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