Wiggle,Wiggle..
Discussion
Hi peeps, I think ive found my problem with the 280i, Apart from wiggling every visible wire in frustration the main wiggle factor was on the negative lead coming off the coil, Im hoping that its the rubber cap as you only need move it a little and the car stalls....even though the fitment is tight.. Im gonna cut it off and connect a new one and hope and pray that is it... I did read on the capri forum of similar probs except they were the live feed, And if thats dodgey as well i read that you can connect a jump lead from batt to coil?(TVR forum)..But do take it off at night my dear... Will let you know how i get on.. Ta.. Ziga
Well thats what i was hoping for, done the wire, but still has a major issue????????????????????????. Timing is at 12 which is what the book says, The mechanical advance is working properly, The vaccum is ok, Theres a spark at every plug, Theres fuel, Is there something im missing.. It starts first time, There is a flutter on cold if you try to rev it, Then when it gets hot and you rev it, it stalls.. Its like its backwards.. the more throttle the more it dies, I checked the timing when it was doing this, The machanical advance was struggling to centre the marks, There was an occassional misfire and the marks lined up.. Some folks suggested that the timing should be 9, The only prob with that is i cannot move the distributor, Its like its seized in place..any suggs.. anyone.. cheers
I think you have a number of problems going on here !!! Unable to rev properly while cold will most probably the warm up regulator - I dont think you can get them now sometimes for sale on ebay Bosch item. Think some of your other issues could also be based around the fuel system may be worth checking the other sensors.
cheers mate,, I think your right,The aux air device is not on there.. The coolant temperature unit is not on there,It still warms up( 1600rpm)then drops the idle around 1300 which is high but stalls any lower,It drives from cold although rough but any hotter it stalls and runs like a one legged donkey.. I was hoping that after all this time that it would be a burnt valve, At least id know instead of all these possible things it could be, If i can get it running for 6 to 8 months then im gonna save up and get a reconditioned ford 302 5.0ltr engine with gearbox cause its cheaper than having exsisting pony engine rebuilt.. Ill then whack the 2.8 in a garage and strip it down and replace all the bits myself then donor it to a kit... I dont mind doing bits on cars but this is a complete head f 
k and id rather start with a good runner with bits that do undo when you want them to, The engine fires when its asked and it stonks like a ragging elephant, Im sick of this car...
k and id rather start with a good runner with bits that do undo when you want them to, The engine fires when its asked and it stonks like a ragging elephant, Im sick of this car... If I understand correctly, the engine starts but idles fast - 1600 RPM. Doesn't like having the accelerator pushed and dies. When warm the engine idles at 1300 RPM but still doesn't like to have the throttle opened? - correct me if I have this wrong? The timing is factory correct at 12 BTDC, the only reason to knock back to 9 degrees is to adjust for unleaded.
There are only two reasons why the engine would die when the throttle is opened, the fuel mixture is going to weak or the spark or spark advance are not correct.
It is possible the fuel distributor is not correcting the air fuel ratio as the throttle is opened, but this is quite rare.
Some notes on K-Jetronic diagnostics
Engine turns but won't start
1) No fuel pressure;
Test the fuel pump and pre-pump and do a fuel pressure test and volume test.
2) Jammed or sticking airflow sensor;
Remove the hose that goes to the intake and loosen the centerline on the fuel distributor. This will relieve the control pressure.
Press down on the center bolt of the plate and you should feel no resistance or binding. Also check for the correct centering and rest height.
3) Auxiliary valve is sticking.
4) Defective cold start injector;
If the injector does not function, the air-fuel ratio will be lean.
5) Shorted or defective thermo-time switch;
The cold start injector will not work if the thermo time switch is defective.
Check this in the event that your cold start injector failed the test before replacing in vain.
6) Control plunger sticking;
Remove the fuel distributor from the airflow sensor and check to see if it sticks or has severe tarnishing. (Note...Do not use a control plunger from another airflow sensor because these are machined to each airflow sensor they are originally installed in)
7) Restricted Injectors;
For this to be the cause, they would have to be severely restricted.
Troubleshooting
Hot Starting Difficulty
1) Loss of rest pressure;
Perform a pressure test and focus on the rest pressure. If it does not pass, check for a defective fuel pump check valve, defective fuel distributor, faulty system pressure regulator and leaking cold start injector.
2) Airflow sensor improperly adjusted
Check height, centering and for binding. Loosen the centerline on the fuel distributor to relieve control pressure.
3) Sticking or binding control plunger;
Remove the fuel distributor and ensure that the control plunger moves freely.
4) Injectors leaking;
Remove the injectors from the intake manifold and with the ignition key on and engine NOT running, press on the center plate to pressurize the system. Inspect and replace any injectors that are leaking.
5) Cold start injector leaking
Same test as above.
6) Shorted thermo-time switch;
Cold start injector is dependant on this component functioning.
7) Incorrect control pressure;
Perform a pressure test and verify that the warm control is within spec
Rough Idle (Cold)
1) Cold control pressure incorrect;
The movement of the control plunger will be limited if the cold control pressure is high. This in turn will limit the amount of fuel able to be delivered through the injectors .The result will be an extremely lean air-fuel ratio.
2) Auxiliary air valve defective;
If defective and not opening, idle cannot raise and results in a rough idle.
3) Airflow sensor adjusted improperly or is binding
If the movement is not smooth, it will result in air-fuel ratio errors.
4) Leaking cold start injector;
If the cold start injector is leaking, the engine will be over-fueled.
5) Injectors have an unequal flow or spray pattern
Perform an injector flow test and replace any injectors that do not deliver the correct amount of fuel or have a poor spray pattern.
Runs rough (Warm)
1) Warm control pressure incorrect;
Incorrect warm control pressure that is too high or low will cause incorrect air-fuel ratio thus resulting in rough idle.
2) Airflow sensor adjusted improperly or is binding
If the movement is not smooth, it will result in air-fuel ratio errors. Check and correct rest height and also centering of the plate.
3) Leaking cold start injector;
Again, this will result in over-fueling the engine causing rough idle.
4) Injectors have an unequal flow or spray pattern
Perform an injector flow test and replace any that do not deliver the correct amount of fuel or have a poor spray pattern.
Stalls After Starting (Warm)
1) Warm control pressure;
If the warm control pressure is too high or low, the air-fuel ratio will be lean.
2) System pressure incorrect;
If too high or low, the air-fuel ratio will be incorrect.
Idle Speed High
1) Check auxiliary air valve;
Ensure that it is closing.
2) Check for vacuum leaks
Run a small-unlit bottle of propane around throttle body and intake and if engine speed increases, you have located vacuum leak.
3) Check for minimum air.
Backfire in Intake
1) Check that the CO adjustment is correct
If incorrect, backfiring will result if started and under load.
2) Boot between airflow sensor and throttle body defective
This will result in a lean mixture due to secondary air.
3) Vacuum leaks.
Misfiring
1) Ignition;
Inspect the cap, rotor, wires and plugs.
2) Fuel delivery inadequate;
Check for binding of the airflow sensor, control plunger, incorrect control or system pressure.
3) Injectors;
Unequal delivery or poor spray pattern. Perform a test and replace any that are defective
Poor Power
1) Control pressure too high;
If the control pressure is too high, the control plunger’s travel will be limited resulting in a lean air-fuel ratio.
2) Check the ignition components
Verify that the spark plugs, wires, cap and rotor are not worn.
3) Injectors restricted
Perform a test for delivery. If an injector is restricted, fuel delivery will be limited.
Sag or Stumble When Accelerating
1) Airflow sensor plate binding or sticking;
If binding or sticking, fuel flow will be limited.
2) Control plunger binding or sticking;
If binding or sticking, fuel flow will be limited.
3) System pressure or warm control pressure incorrect;
If too high, the travel of the control plunger will be limited.
4) Injector flow unequal;
Perform an injector flow test and replace any injector that differs more than 10% than the others.
There are only two reasons why the engine would die when the throttle is opened, the fuel mixture is going to weak or the spark or spark advance are not correct.
It is possible the fuel distributor is not correcting the air fuel ratio as the throttle is opened, but this is quite rare.
Some notes on K-Jetronic diagnostics
Engine turns but won't start
1) No fuel pressure;
Test the fuel pump and pre-pump and do a fuel pressure test and volume test.
2) Jammed or sticking airflow sensor;
Remove the hose that goes to the intake and loosen the centerline on the fuel distributor. This will relieve the control pressure.
Press down on the center bolt of the plate and you should feel no resistance or binding. Also check for the correct centering and rest height.
3) Auxiliary valve is sticking.
4) Defective cold start injector;
If the injector does not function, the air-fuel ratio will be lean.
5) Shorted or defective thermo-time switch;
The cold start injector will not work if the thermo time switch is defective.
Check this in the event that your cold start injector failed the test before replacing in vain.
6) Control plunger sticking;
Remove the fuel distributor from the airflow sensor and check to see if it sticks or has severe tarnishing. (Note...Do not use a control plunger from another airflow sensor because these are machined to each airflow sensor they are originally installed in)
7) Restricted Injectors;
For this to be the cause, they would have to be severely restricted.
Troubleshooting
Hot Starting Difficulty
1) Loss of rest pressure;
Perform a pressure test and focus on the rest pressure. If it does not pass, check for a defective fuel pump check valve, defective fuel distributor, faulty system pressure regulator and leaking cold start injector.
2) Airflow sensor improperly adjusted
Check height, centering and for binding. Loosen the centerline on the fuel distributor to relieve control pressure.
3) Sticking or binding control plunger;
Remove the fuel distributor and ensure that the control plunger moves freely.
4) Injectors leaking;
Remove the injectors from the intake manifold and with the ignition key on and engine NOT running, press on the center plate to pressurize the system. Inspect and replace any injectors that are leaking.
5) Cold start injector leaking
Same test as above.
6) Shorted thermo-time switch;
Cold start injector is dependant on this component functioning.
7) Incorrect control pressure;
Perform a pressure test and verify that the warm control is within spec
Rough Idle (Cold)
1) Cold control pressure incorrect;
The movement of the control plunger will be limited if the cold control pressure is high. This in turn will limit the amount of fuel able to be delivered through the injectors .The result will be an extremely lean air-fuel ratio.
2) Auxiliary air valve defective;
If defective and not opening, idle cannot raise and results in a rough idle.
3) Airflow sensor adjusted improperly or is binding
If the movement is not smooth, it will result in air-fuel ratio errors.
4) Leaking cold start injector;
If the cold start injector is leaking, the engine will be over-fueled.
5) Injectors have an unequal flow or spray pattern
Perform an injector flow test and replace any injectors that do not deliver the correct amount of fuel or have a poor spray pattern.
Runs rough (Warm)
1) Warm control pressure incorrect;
Incorrect warm control pressure that is too high or low will cause incorrect air-fuel ratio thus resulting in rough idle.
2) Airflow sensor adjusted improperly or is binding
If the movement is not smooth, it will result in air-fuel ratio errors. Check and correct rest height and also centering of the plate.
3) Leaking cold start injector;
Again, this will result in over-fueling the engine causing rough idle.
4) Injectors have an unequal flow or spray pattern
Perform an injector flow test and replace any that do not deliver the correct amount of fuel or have a poor spray pattern.
Stalls After Starting (Warm)
1) Warm control pressure;
If the warm control pressure is too high or low, the air-fuel ratio will be lean.
2) System pressure incorrect;
If too high or low, the air-fuel ratio will be incorrect.
Idle Speed High
1) Check auxiliary air valve;
Ensure that it is closing.
2) Check for vacuum leaks
Run a small-unlit bottle of propane around throttle body and intake and if engine speed increases, you have located vacuum leak.
3) Check for minimum air.
Backfire in Intake
1) Check that the CO adjustment is correct
If incorrect, backfiring will result if started and under load.
2) Boot between airflow sensor and throttle body defective
This will result in a lean mixture due to secondary air.
3) Vacuum leaks.
Misfiring
1) Ignition;
Inspect the cap, rotor, wires and plugs.
2) Fuel delivery inadequate;
Check for binding of the airflow sensor, control plunger, incorrect control or system pressure.
3) Injectors;
Unequal delivery or poor spray pattern. Perform a test and replace any that are defective
Poor Power
1) Control pressure too high;
If the control pressure is too high, the control plunger’s travel will be limited resulting in a lean air-fuel ratio.
2) Check the ignition components
Verify that the spark plugs, wires, cap and rotor are not worn.
3) Injectors restricted
Perform a test for delivery. If an injector is restricted, fuel delivery will be limited.
Sag or Stumble When Accelerating
1) Airflow sensor plate binding or sticking;
If binding or sticking, fuel flow will be limited.
2) Control plunger binding or sticking;
If binding or sticking, fuel flow will be limited.
3) System pressure or warm control pressure incorrect;
If too high, the travel of the control plunger will be limited.
4) Injector flow unequal;
Perform an injector flow test and replace any injector that differs more than 10% than the others.
It may also be possible that you still have an electrical issue - if you have a faulty connection in the low tension circuit it is possible that the coil is not supplied enough current to energise correctly etc.
What part of the country are you - if you local I am happy to help with the diagnosis.
What part of the country are you - if you local I am happy to help with the diagnosis.
Cheers keatsie, Thats alot of info... This is the problem, There are too many problems and too many things it could be,Surely someone must know excactly what the problem is,I dont know if the car has had an unleaded conversion or recent owners have added lead replacement or not as the case might be.. In which case the valve seats are soft on my 280 and that could cause this problem as well, Even a burnt valve,So lets say i do all the above and its still got the same prob, Get the valves checked and they are ok.. Replace the valve seats and it still dont work, What then...Ive already spent in excess of £500 trying to sort this out..Im going round in circles and getting nowhere fast,I live in brockley which is in lewisham, I dont have anywhere to do major work as its on the street, I should get a garage,When i bought the car the fuel that came out of the old filter was like syrup but the car has burnt off about £30 worth of petrol,I was wondering about the timing as i say the trouble is the distributor wont budge, Ive even taken out the bolt,When i check the timing it was about 2mm past 12 but couldnt adjust it,I will try to undo the centreline on fuel dist to see, The airflow sensor plate has a little gap about 3mm on one side and there is some tarnish on there, I did read that you can bend the spring but i dont like bending bits,They usually break..The fuel pump does make a bit of noise and sometimes the engine increases then decreases then increases etc, The fuel pump follows the notation of the engine, Wurring with the idle,There was some kind of cardboard substance underneath the sensor plate, It came out with a gentle tug,Perhaps someone used paper instead of shims?, Im at my wits end.. Thanks for your advice.
Edited by mrzigazaga on Tuesday 24th August 23:04
Getting the valves checked should not cost a busting great deal - unless it shows problems.
You need to borrow a compression checker - which is just a pressure gauge with a one-way valve, it screws in in place of a plug.
. Make sure the battery is well charged.
. warm the engine up - but not too hot.
. disconnect LT of the coil.
. take all the plugs out.
. wedge the throttle open somehow.
. put the gauge into cylinder 1.
. churn the engine for a few seconds.
. repeat for all cylinders.
. the reading should be around 140 psi (check the figure for your particular engine), I can't find the figures in the Wedge bible.
. all cylinders should be the same within about 10% (20% for a worn but not dead engine).
. if one or more is low then squirt engine oil into the cylinder and test again (wet test).
. improved figures for a wet test indicate worn piston rings rather than valves.
. if the figures are OK then it is most likely that there is nothing wrong with the valves so no need to remove the head.
Russ
You need to borrow a compression checker - which is just a pressure gauge with a one-way valve, it screws in in place of a plug.
. Make sure the battery is well charged.
. warm the engine up - but not too hot.
. disconnect LT of the coil.
. take all the plugs out.
. wedge the throttle open somehow.
. put the gauge into cylinder 1.
. churn the engine for a few seconds.
. repeat for all cylinders.
. the reading should be around 140 psi (check the figure for your particular engine), I can't find the figures in the Wedge bible.
. all cylinders should be the same within about 10% (20% for a worn but not dead engine).
. if one or more is low then squirt engine oil into the cylinder and test again (wet test).
. improved figures for a wet test indicate worn piston rings rather than valves.
. if the figures are OK then it is most likely that there is nothing wrong with the valves so no need to remove the head.
Russ
Cheers E ponym, My mate was gonna lend me his but hes in hospital after falling off his bike.. Tried to see how much they are, I think they're around £80, Trouble is would have to do it on street.... I did find a local capri specialist and he quoted £60+vat to do the valve, The only reason for this is that they do have parts there as well and i have bits that i have but dont know where they fit, And im sure in there years of experience they would of had at least one car with the same symptoms,If i could find the key to turn off the rain machine and get the bits id probably av a go.. You must understand that i have had the car for 4weeks, Its taxed, Insured, But has sat outside my flat all this time since i bought it, (as a driving summer project) and i just want someone else to rack their brain cos it seems what ever step forward i take, Its 2 steps back.. Cheers. Zig
Compression testers are about £20 not £80. Fleabay has loads and I am sure Halfords are as cheap. Although it doesn't sound to me like burnt valves issue. It would struggle to start with little or no compression and turn over very easily.
Another thing to check is the fuel lines, flow and return. This might sound stupid, but the engine will start and tick over if they are the wrong way round but it will not increase revs when the loud peddle is pushed, it will die.
Another thing to check is the fuel lines, flow and return. This might sound stupid, but the engine will start and tick over if they are the wrong way round but it will not increase revs when the loud peddle is pushed, it will die.
Cheers topton, It does rev a little better when cold.. I did have an issue with syrup petrol coming out of the orig filter but it has had a new filter, injector cleaner and loads of fresh fuel and run about a bit,Will av a look in manual for diagram.. Cheers
Edited by mrzigazaga on Thursday 26th August 17:05
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