RE: Porsche To Develop VW Group Sports Car Platform
Wednesday 25th August 2010
This could share its innards...Porsche is to develop the basic platforms for the VW Group's future high-end sports cars, after it won out in an internal struggle with Group bedfellows Audi.
...with this...The MSB, as it's called, will be put into use for the next versions of the Porsche Cayenne and Panamera, and a future Bentley.
...and some of theseQuite what old WO Bentley would think of his precious cars sharing their innards with a VW Beetle, we couldn't possibly comment - though we suspect there may be quite a bit of rotational grave activity going on somewhere...
Porsche To Develop VW Group Sports Car Platform
Future VW sports models - including Bentley - will get Porsche-derived underpinnings
This could share its innards...
The plan, says a report on German industry site Automobilwoche, is for Porsche to provide a standard modular platform called MSB.
The MSB will put its engine over the front axle, and will be able to accommodate either longitudinal or transverse motor installations.
...with this...
Ultimately, the flexibility of the planned platform should mean that it could filter throughout the VW empire.
The resultant slash in development times and costs is a "key competitive advantage" of VW's brand portfolio, says VW boss Martin Winterkorn, and should put it "years ahead of its competitors". For which, read BMW and Daimler...
...and some of these
Discussion
oagent said:
It will make chaving your golf into a bugatti much easier though. Just buy a smoky old passat in 2020 and swap the body panels to Conti ones, no need to even vist halfords.
Was thinking the same thing, how possible would it be to do such a thing. Say change a Passat into a Continental...I want a Veyron fronty, passat middle (for family room of course) and a continental GT boot (just for the hell of it)
With a 16.4 W16 veyron lump sat in the front and rear wheel drive.
Wow next generation Mechano kit!!!!!!!
article said:
The MSB will put its engine over the front axle, and will be able to accommodate either longitudinal or transverse motor installations.
Mild improvement on the Audi platforms with the engine ahead of the front axle, but still crappy VW group multi-use platform compromise design, unless "over the axle" means mostly behind.Will the platform be rear-wheel drive-based or, depressingly, front wheel/four wheel drive?
Edited by Zod on Wednesday 25th August 12:37
This is why I want a Phaeton. It's a Bentley with a "Peoples Car" badge. Just as good and 30% of the price.
VW will do to the brands what Leyland did to Rover, I remember laughing at the joke idea that there would be a Metro with a Rover badge. Five years later it was no longer that kind of joke.
The only brand VW is careful of is the Audi brand. That's where all the innovation (Aluminium, DSG, Diesel sports etc.) happens.
Simon
VW will do to the brands what Leyland did to Rover, I remember laughing at the joke idea that there would be a Metro with a Rover badge. Five years later it was no longer that kind of joke.
The only brand VW is careful of is the Audi brand. That's where all the innovation (Aluminium, DSG, Diesel sports etc.) happens.
Simon
Eh? Why all the negativity? If more cars in the world have Porsche know-how in their underpinnings surely more drivers than ever can enjoy the brand's superb engineering expertise?
You can't have it both ways, questioning the integrity of Golfs and Bentleys then moaning about Porsche getting involved. And just look how successful the VW Group has been at developing brands like Skoda, SEAT, Lamborghini and Bugatti. The fact that Porsche is now involved and developing a new platform is hardly the worst news in the world for people like us, is it?
You can't have it both ways, questioning the integrity of Golfs and Bentleys then moaning about Porsche getting involved. And just look how successful the VW Group has been at developing brands like Skoda, SEAT, Lamborghini and Bugatti. The fact that Porsche is now involved and developing a new platform is hardly the worst news in the world for people like us, is it?
Will be interesting to see how this thread develops compared with similar comments made about the new Saab's heritage.
As soon as a 'make / marque' becomes a 'brand' it is liable to be diluted in such a way that only the superficaility is the differentiator. However this is not only a result of marketing but also the reduction in distinct manufacturers but also the immense cost of developing new cars.
As soon as a 'make / marque' becomes a 'brand' it is liable to be diluted in such a way that only the superficaility is the differentiator. However this is not only a result of marketing but also the reduction in distinct manufacturers but also the immense cost of developing new cars.
simonrockman said:
This is why I want a Phaeton. It's a Bentley with a "Peoples Car" badge. Just as good and 30% of the price.
VW will do to the brands what Leyland did to Rover, I remember laughing at the joke idea that there would be a Metro with a Rover badge. Five years later it was no longer that kind of joke.
The only brand VW is careful of is the Audi brand. That's where all the innovation (Aluminium, DSG, Diesel sports etc.) happens.
Simon
I wonder what those thousands of Bentley engineers get up to in Crewe? According to you, they end up making no improvements, that must be pretty depressing.VW will do to the brands what Leyland did to Rover, I remember laughing at the joke idea that there would be a Metro with a Rover badge. Five years later it was no longer that kind of joke.
The only brand VW is careful of is the Audi brand. That's where all the innovation (Aluminium, DSG, Diesel sports etc.) happens.
Simon
Mazda Baiter said:
Yet another way to devalue the Bentley brand.
I can't see it being popular with more traditional Bentley owners.
Yes. The largest British makes are TVR and Morgan.I can't see it being popular with more traditional Bentley owners.
Bentley, Bugatti and Lamborghini are only expensive "people's cars".
Buyers surely don't agree, but anyway I will never buy a VW-linked car, as the Beetle was made to invade England, has absolutely no class (mainly because utterly common), and made such a ghastly noise. Also slipper-Porsches.
At the motorshows (at least in Belgium) you will never find more unfriendly sellers. Even the Porsche sellers look at you as if you were
.They do not want to sell! Who buys those cars?
collateral said:
Brighton Speed said:
Eh? Why all the negativity? If more cars in the world have Porsche know-how in their underpinnings surely more drivers than ever can enjoy the brand's superb engineering expertise?
Agree. 'New versions of several cars should handle much better' Cue the outrage!TonyRPH said:
IIRC, that's similar to how the Porsche 924 started it's life?
It was originally a VW product, which was then abandoned during the fuel crisis, and picked up by Porsche.
And need we even mention the legendary Audi RS2? Or that the 911's bloodline is essentially Volkswagen's original Beetle? Say what you will, but VW and Porsche have been genetically linked for decades and produced some cracking steers. Even the the families on the boards of the two brands are linked (by marriage IIRC) so this news is merely further evolution. Evolution that has so far been largely successful for spirited drivers the world over.It was originally a VW product, which was then abandoned during the fuel crisis, and picked up by Porsche.
geoffracing said:
Bentley, Bugatti and Lamborghini are only expensive "people's cars".
Buyers surely don't agree, but anyway I will never buy a VW-linked car, as the Beetle was made to invade England, has absolutely no class (mainly because utterly common), and made such a ghastly noise. Also slipper-Porsches.
Buyers surely don't agree, but anyway I will never buy a VW-linked car, as the Beetle was made to invade England, has absolutely no class (mainly because utterly common), and made such a ghastly noise. Also slipper-Porsches.
Brighton Speed said:
Eh? Why all the negativity? If more cars in the world have Porsche know-how in their underpinnings surely more drivers than ever can enjoy the brand's superb engineering expertise?
You can't have it both ways, questioning the integrity of Golfs and Bentleys then moaning about Porsche getting involved. And just look how successful the VW Group has been at developing brands like Skoda, SEAT, Lamborghini and Bugatti. The fact that Porsche is now involved and developing a new platform is hardly the worst news in the world for people like us, is it?
That's the problem though, they're just 'brands' now. BL used the exact same thinking in the '70s and it just caused several long-established makes that could have carved their own niche had they been run as an independent to fizzle out ignominiously taking hundreds of jobs with them at a time as the market couldn't differentiate between the pros and cons of the badge-engineered models.You can't have it both ways, questioning the integrity of Golfs and Bentleys then moaning about Porsche getting involved. And just look how successful the VW Group has been at developing brands like Skoda, SEAT, Lamborghini and Bugatti. The fact that Porsche is now involved and developing a new platform is hardly the worst news in the world for people like us, is it?
Take the 1100/1300 for example. Great concept, but available as a budget Morris, mid-range Austin, sporty MG, luxo-spec Vanden Plas and luxury-sport Riley. Point is, the market deviated to the mean, and marques like Riley, which could have gone on to be genuine British BMW rivals had they been treated as independent concerns and possibly privatised or sold off, ended up dying and taking thousands of jobs with them.
When I look at the platform-engineered VAG range, I can't honestly see why someone would buy anything other than a Skoda unless we were talking VW GTI or Audi R/S. Bentley's Continental range with its rounded-oblong grille looks like an Audi in a gimp suit, and even the bespoke Bugatti Veyron seems to have some VW sterility about it, with people going on about how easy it is to drive and its headlights looking uncannily like they got them off a Passat. Now it seems Porsche will be absorbed, it's like watching a zombie-apocalypse film. VAG ownership is to a car firm what contracting the Rage Virus was to humans in 28 Days Later.
I cannot undestand how some buyers can give a fortune to buy a car named "people's car"!
Perhaps it's a good sign: bringing rich classes down so as not to disturb the lower ones.
I'm not racist! But you must admit an Aston Martin has more class than a Daewoo (however good these may be); "classy" does not necessarilly mean "snob".
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