Off they go again !
Discussion
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1930000/1930961.stm
The BBC again with quotes like "Mr McClintock says that slowing cars would help cut cycling deaths"
I'll tell you what would help cut cycling deaths (with all due respect to those of you who cycle as well as drive)
1) clamping down on cyclists with inadequate or no lights after dark
2) persuading cyclists that traffic lights are for them as well
3) persuading cyclists that one-way streets mean them as well
4) banning "racing" equipment like bolting feet to the pedals forcing cyclists to wobble around in junctions because they can't put a foot down
5) persuading cyclists not to swerve unpredictably from pavement to carriageway and back as the mood takes them
6) pointing out to cyclists that with the best will in the world most motorists don't expect to see them coming up their inside when they're signalling to turn left
7) remind cyclists that the public road is not the place for stunt riding
8) remind the pupils of a certain school in Leatherhead that cycle helmets are only effective if you put them on your head - they don't work if you dangle them from the handlebars, even if it does avoid spoiling your hair gel
9) point out that even if the highway code says it's acceptable to ride two abreast it's pretty bloody silly on a narrow road with a lot of traffic.
10) persuade cyclists to use cycle lanes when they are provided
11) remind them that a modern car can stop pretty sharpish when it needs to so by sitting a foot from the bumper you're asking for a back window/teeth coming together.
In general, if a motorist displayed the same total disregard for traffic signals, road markings, construction and use regulations etc. that some (not all) cyclists do they would make the front pages and be in the chokey PDQ
The BBC again with quotes like "Mr McClintock says that slowing cars would help cut cycling deaths"
I'll tell you what would help cut cycling deaths (with all due respect to those of you who cycle as well as drive)
1) clamping down on cyclists with inadequate or no lights after dark
2) persuading cyclists that traffic lights are for them as well
3) persuading cyclists that one-way streets mean them as well
4) banning "racing" equipment like bolting feet to the pedals forcing cyclists to wobble around in junctions because they can't put a foot down
5) persuading cyclists not to swerve unpredictably from pavement to carriageway and back as the mood takes them
6) pointing out to cyclists that with the best will in the world most motorists don't expect to see them coming up their inside when they're signalling to turn left
7) remind cyclists that the public road is not the place for stunt riding
8) remind the pupils of a certain school in Leatherhead that cycle helmets are only effective if you put them on your head - they don't work if you dangle them from the handlebars, even if it does avoid spoiling your hair gel
9) point out that even if the highway code says it's acceptable to ride two abreast it's pretty bloody silly on a narrow road with a lot of traffic.
10) persuade cyclists to use cycle lanes when they are provided
11) remind them that a modern car can stop pretty sharpish when it needs to so by sitting a foot from the bumper you're asking for a back window/teeth coming together.
In general, if a motorist displayed the same total disregard for traffic signals, road markings, construction and use regulations etc. that some (not all) cyclists do they would make the front pages and be in the chokey PDQ
Following on from point 1) perhaps some cyclists should show a bit of self-preservation. Several times now I've been just about to pull out of a side road at night when a stealth cyclist dressed in dark clothes with no lights on and cycling on the pavement has flashed past my bonnet.
And the most depressing thing is that if I'd hit him then I'd be at fault!
And the most depressing thing is that if I'd hit him then I'd be at fault!
If you don't happen to live in a cycle-rich place, come to Cambridge (or Oxford) for a day in term time. Then it becomes pretty clear why many cycling accidents occur. Motorists are not without blame, but a large proportion of cyclists are not helping themselves here.
The gaggle of Japanese students cyclicg the wrong way around a one-way junction arrangement (Mitcham's Corner, Cam) was particularly amusing.
The gaggle of Japanese students cyclicg the wrong way around a one-way junction arrangement (Mitcham's Corner, Cam) was particularly amusing.
I'm getting fed up with this crap.
Here is the polite mail I sent the BBC.
My email address and photo will probably be published with the title child murderer now:
I am becoming increasingly concerned with the anti-car propaganda that the BBC online site seems to be reporting these days. Far from the respected and unbiased reporting of old there seems to be an agenda of hate against the motorist.
In a number of recent stories published on the site this bias has been highlighted. For example the reference to the performance of a car when it is clearly not relevant to the story, the apparent murderous intent of drivers, even when the other party is often to blame as much if not more.
As an enthusiastic motorist I take my driving very seriously, and am very aware that road safety it partly my responsibilty, but it is also the responsibility of all other roadusers whether mounted on a cycle or horse, or as a pedestrian. All parties must behave with respect to each other, and it is not always the drivers fault.
I suggest you redress this balance and take a more objective look at your stories involving transport.
Here is the polite mail I sent the BBC.
My email address and photo will probably be published with the title child murderer now:
I am becoming increasingly concerned with the anti-car propaganda that the BBC online site seems to be reporting these days. Far from the respected and unbiased reporting of old there seems to be an agenda of hate against the motorist.
In a number of recent stories published on the site this bias has been highlighted. For example the reference to the performance of a car when it is clearly not relevant to the story, the apparent murderous intent of drivers, even when the other party is often to blame as much if not more.
As an enthusiastic motorist I take my driving very seriously, and am very aware that road safety it partly my responsibilty, but it is also the responsibility of all other roadusers whether mounted on a cycle or horse, or as a pedestrian. All parties must behave with respect to each other, and it is not always the drivers fault.
I suggest you redress this balance and take a more objective look at your stories involving transport.
Hi, I'd just like to say that as a poor student I regularly ride my bike on the road. It has no reflectors (they were all removed or fell off long ago) but I do always have lights (at night). I've been riding since I was able to walk and was taught at school about cycling proficiency so I like to think I know what I'm doing. When riding in town you really have to assume the worst off all drivers, I ride so defensivley that if you tried to drive a car like that you'd never get anywhere.
Yes I skip red lights, but anyone with half a brain will only do this at pedestrian only lights (ie. NOT lights that control traffic flow or junctions, and yes I can tell the difference) P.S. Its easy for me to dodge the pedestrains and I have no licence plate so aint gonna get caught.
As a driver I am aware just how much situational awareness your average driver has and I can tell you it's nothing compared to the awareness your average cyclist has (well me anyway)
I always assume that I have to do all teh motorists thinking for them for me to even survive a roundabout.
However having said all that I do regularly observe other riders when I'm out and about that haven't got a clue what they're doing. It's just the same as car drivers. There are a select few who know what they're diong and the rest are numpties. The only thing is you can afford to drive around in your car ignoring whats going on around you safe in the knowledge thats it not you who will suffer in the event of a minor prang. On a bike however its a different matter. You can either be good or you can be dead.
Andy
PS. despite much trying I have still to set off a speed camera on my bike. I will one day. Can you imagine the look on plods face
Yes I skip red lights, but anyone with half a brain will only do this at pedestrian only lights (ie. NOT lights that control traffic flow or junctions, and yes I can tell the difference) P.S. Its easy for me to dodge the pedestrains and I have no licence plate so aint gonna get caught.
As a driver I am aware just how much situational awareness your average driver has and I can tell you it's nothing compared to the awareness your average cyclist has (well me anyway)
I always assume that I have to do all teh motorists thinking for them for me to even survive a roundabout.
However having said all that I do regularly observe other riders when I'm out and about that haven't got a clue what they're doing. It's just the same as car drivers. There are a select few who know what they're diong and the rest are numpties. The only thing is you can afford to drive around in your car ignoring whats going on around you safe in the knowledge thats it not you who will suffer in the event of a minor prang. On a bike however its a different matter. You can either be good or you can be dead.
Andy
PS. despite much trying I have still to set off a speed camera on my bike. I will one day. Can you imagine the look on plods face
quote:
However having said all that I do regularly observe other riders when I'm out and about that haven't got a clue what they're doing. It's just the same as car drivers. There are a select few who know what they're diong and the rest are numpties. The only thing is you can afford to drive around in your car ignoring whats going on around you safe in the knowledge thats it not you who will suffer in the event of a minor prang. On a bike however its a different matter. You can either be good or you can be dead.
Andy
That pretty much sums it up.
SteveH - don't get pissed off at crap cyclists, get pissed off at crap ROAD USERS.
(And try to show more tolerance to those users of vehicles that will do you the least damage - I'd rather get surprised/scratched by a bike than decapitated by a SUV/Volvo etc...)
Oh, and those of you determined to force petty nanny-state laws onto cyclists out of sheer spite, please try to remember:
every cyclist you see is ONE LESS CAR in the queue at the next lights.
quote:
1) clamping down on cyclists with inadequate or no lights after dark
2) persuading cyclists that traffic lights are for them as well
3) persuading cyclists that one-way streets mean them as well
4) banning "racing" equipment like bolting feet to the pedals forcing cyclists to wobble around in junctions because they can't put a foot down
5) persuading cyclists not to swerve unpredictably from pavement to carriageway and back as the mood takes them
6) pointing out to cyclists that with the best will in the world most motorists don't expect to see them coming up their inside when they're signalling to turn left
7) remind cyclists that the public road is not the place for stunt riding
8) remind the pupils of a certain school in Leatherhead that cycle helmets are only effective if you put them on your head - they don't work if you dangle them from the handlebars, even if it does avoid spoiling your hair gel
9) point out that even if the highway code says it's acceptable to ride two abreast it's pretty bloody silly on a narrow road with a lot of traffic.
10) persuade cyclists to use cycle lanes when they are provided
11) remind them that a modern car can stop pretty sharpish when it needs to so by sitting a foot from the bumper you're asking for a back window/teeth coming together.
SPOT ON!
As a cyclist I can't disagree with most of your points, although the problem with 'racing' pedals isn't that your feet are locked to the pedals, only that some cyclists are too lazy to unclip their feet when they really should do.
We all share the same road space and like the majority of car drivers, most cyclists realise this and are happy to do their bit to behave responsibly.
We all share the same road space and like the majority of car drivers, most cyclists realise this and are happy to do their bit to behave responsibly.
Out on my bike the biggest problem are the drivers who try to take my legg off in passing. I am legal as well, lights etc. However I do see a lot of cyclists who think its thier god given right (like caravans) to be there. So agree witha lot of the above comments.
On the subject of helmets, whilst at Centre Parcs earlier this year (no I didn't start it, wasn't there) I was surprised to see the ammount of parents and kids with no bone domes.
On the subject of helmets, whilst at Centre Parcs earlier this year (no I didn't start it, wasn't there) I was surprised to see the ammount of parents and kids with no bone domes.
quote:
I've been riding since I was able to walk and was taught at school about cycling proficiency so I like to think I know what I'm doing.
lol.
Yes, i went to that AND I got the badge. It's like the I.A.M. : any sort of incident you just point to your little button then wave a finger at the embarrassed miscreant.
I saw this story on the BBC site too. Given that I'd spent 3 years cycling round central London and been knocked off the bike once (by a pedestrian as it happens) and now drive in London, I thought I might have some experience they'd be interested to hear.
My post was pretty much along the lines of drivers are not as aware as they might be ... so the most constructive thing cyclists could do is make themselves visible and not do anything unexpected.
Did my message appear on their site? No, of course not. Neither did anyone else suggesting (a) cyclists could take some action to alleviate the problem or (b), heaven forbid, that it might be their own bloody fault half the time.
[rant]
I'm afraid it's yet another case of self righteous PC neo-fascist prats putting themselves up on a pedestal, declaring themselves (a) substantially holier than thou, (b) a down trodden bunch of martyrs.
They're just a bunch of children who have failed to grow up. They need to be the centre of attention the entire time. They can only feel good about themselves, by finding someone else to despise. They hold their views on the environment, globilisation, cycling, yoga and tofu, solely in the pathetic attempt to massage their egos.
They think of their "rights" first, and their responsibilities to others not at all.
Do they consider for one moment that if they get bounced off the windscreen of some car, because they are exercising their God given right to weave around in the dark, that just maybe they'll traumatise the driver for the rest of their life?
1 e.g. then I'll shut up ... driving through Clerkenwell 8pm in Feb, overtake a girl on a bike, stop at some lights, she overtakes me and stops. She had been all but invisible and I was genuinely worried. So I open the window and warn her that she is really really hard to see (no lights, no reflectors, dark clothing). And she went
ing mental. What can you do?
[rant/]
My post was pretty much along the lines of drivers are not as aware as they might be ... so the most constructive thing cyclists could do is make themselves visible and not do anything unexpected.
Did my message appear on their site? No, of course not. Neither did anyone else suggesting (a) cyclists could take some action to alleviate the problem or (b), heaven forbid, that it might be their own bloody fault half the time.
[rant]
I'm afraid it's yet another case of self righteous PC neo-fascist prats putting themselves up on a pedestal, declaring themselves (a) substantially holier than thou, (b) a down trodden bunch of martyrs.
They're just a bunch of children who have failed to grow up. They need to be the centre of attention the entire time. They can only feel good about themselves, by finding someone else to despise. They hold their views on the environment, globilisation, cycling, yoga and tofu, solely in the pathetic attempt to massage their egos.
They think of their "rights" first, and their responsibilities to others not at all.
Do they consider for one moment that if they get bounced off the windscreen of some car, because they are exercising their God given right to weave around in the dark, that just maybe they'll traumatise the driver for the rest of their life?
1 e.g. then I'll shut up ... driving through Clerkenwell 8pm in Feb, overtake a girl on a bike, stop at some lights, she overtakes me and stops. She had been all but invisible and I was genuinely worried. So I open the window and warn her that she is really really hard to see (no lights, no reflectors, dark clothing). And she went
ing mental. What can you do? [rant/]
Missed my favourite one; Emerging from T junctions without looking to the right and not giving way to cars, or even other bikes for that matter, already on the main carriageway. I think that in the last year I could have quite legitimately 'taken out' or at least put tyre marks up the side/back of half a dozen cyclists.
They must leave their brains in the nap sack on their back.
Harry
They must leave their brains in the nap sack on their back.
Harry
quote:
Yes I skip red lights, but anyone with half a brain will only do this at pedestrian only lights (ie. NOT lights that control traffic flow or junctions, and yes I can tell the difference)
Perhaps, but walk about in the Square mile of london to witness those who don't.. I have seen at least one accident per week in a specific junction thanks to cyclists (and sometimes cars) deciding they are not going to wait.
quote:
P.S. Its easy for me to dodge the pedestrains and I have no licence plate so aint gonna get caught.
Wrong, you can be caught, the Police are clamping down on this in the London area, if they spot you, you may get a warning..
quote:
As a driver I am aware just how much situational awareness your average driver has and I can tell you it's nothing compared to the awareness your average cyclist has (well me anyway)
I'd like to argue that point, but I guess given the complete morons they let have cars I guess I can't
quote:
You can either be good or you can be dead.
as I said above, in London a few times I have seen the latter, and not always the bikes fault either
As for the BBC, well, they advertise 90% of their jobs in the guardian now, so what do you all expect ? A free country or something ??
An interesting piece and plenty of reasonable responses. But no one seems to have picked up that we motorists are licensed to use the public highway, having sat and taken a driving test to ensure we are qualified to do so (although there are plenty of numpties out there determined to undermine that theory I know) We also pay Mr Brown a hell of a lot for the privilege of doing so, with a very small proportion returned by way of road improvements. And we also have to ensure our vehicles are fit for road use through the MOT system and eagled eyed plod looking out for broken lights etc.
So what about cyclists - no test (sorry, forgot my Cycling Proficiency Test taken in the school playground when I was 10), no road fund licence, no vehicle inspectorate. And they argue they have as much right to use the roads as us? Give me a break.
By the way, I posted a short response on the beeb website in this vein. I wonder if they will publish it.
So what about cyclists - no test (sorry, forgot my Cycling Proficiency Test taken in the school playground when I was 10), no road fund licence, no vehicle inspectorate. And they argue they have as much right to use the roads as us? Give me a break.
By the way, I posted a short response on the beeb website in this vein. I wonder if they will publish it.
On the cyclists thing they do get done.
I had a £40 fixed penalty at the age on 23 for riding on the pavement is Gosport. My mitigation was yes it was a pedestrianised shopping street but it was 7.30 in the morning and the copper was hiding behind some signage, I was taking the same short cut I did every morning to get to the ferry and work. He was put there as a "clamp down" and I was one of the examples !!! Even got my name in the local paper for it, they do do these clamp downs and they do make you learn (I did)
I had a £40 fixed penalty at the age on 23 for riding on the pavement is Gosport. My mitigation was yes it was a pedestrianised shopping street but it was 7.30 in the morning and the copper was hiding behind some signage, I was taking the same short cut I did every morning to get to the ferry and work. He was put there as a "clamp down" and I was one of the examples !!! Even got my name in the local paper for it, they do do these clamp downs and they do make you learn (I did)
quote:You're absolutely right Steve - but for the simple reason that once you're on a bike you look like a berk anyway so making hand signals isn't going to worsen matters
It's not sissy to use hand signals, it doesn't make you look stupid and believe it or not, most drivers are not telepathic.
quote:
An interesting piece and plenty of reasonable responses. But no one seems to have picked up that we motorists are licensed to use the public highway, having sat and taken a driving test to ensure we are qualified to do so (although there are plenty of numpties out there determined to undermine that theory I know) We also pay Mr Brown a hell of a lot for the privilege of doing so, with a very small proportion returned by way of road improvements. And we also have to ensure our vehicles are fit for road use through the MOT system and eagled eyed plod looking out for broken lights etc.
So what about cyclists - no test (sorry, forgot my Cycling Proficiency Test taken in the school playground when I was 10), no road fund licence, no vehicle inspectorate. And they argue they have as much right to use the roads as us? Give me a break.
By the way, I posted a short response on the beeb website in this vein. I wonder if they will publish it.
And don't forget that they don't have insurance either.. they can scratch your car with their handlebars/pedals and have your wingmirror off whilst fighting up the inside of you at junction queue, and short of bestowing physical violence upon them you have no reasonable reccompence..
Plus - no 10 points for failing to stop so they can just bugger off too... Grrr...
Cheers
Matt.
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