Cerbera Buying Tips/Pointers
Discussion
Hi guys,
I've been scouring the forum for a while, hindered somewhat by the nonfunctional search engine! I'm not a stupid newbie who can't find the button!
I'm now in a position to procure a Cerbera, specifically i'm after the 4.5 in order to fulfil those boyhood dreams as i'm sure most of you have! I'm not mechanically inept by any stretch of the imagination, but i'm looking for the sort of in-the-know stuff that you only get from long time owners.
I'm looking to get the best example I can with the intention of it becoming a long term affair, as my current pair have been. I'm after the later models specifically, keeping the mileage under 35-40k but coming with all the toys.
Some examples of the sorts of cars that have been raising an eyebrow:
Black 2003 at Tony Gilbert: http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1208892.htm
Purple 2002 Private: http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1983184.htm
The first one concerns me in that it's been for sale for approx 3 months which sort of makes you wonder if it's overpriced, or rotten. The latter, (owned by dirty boy) seems a thorough advert which gives you a good feeling of care, but the price seems a little high. Very unusual colour.
I notice that prices fluctuate all over the place for the V8's, with the latest models commanding the premium. Is there an exhaustive list of the 2001 onwards differences as i've seen numerous references to a 2nd edition type changeover? Did they all get Xenons for instance?
Aside from the outriggers are there any other known trouble spots? I've read numerous times about having a chassis inspection done - who would be able to undertake such a service? I'm not mechanically incompetent but then it's not a small sum to be changing hands either. Can you view the problematic areas well enough with a jack? (Where are the safe points for jacking by the way?) or is it really something that you've got to get a pro onto?
Anything you can add that's helpful would be greatly received. Most of the internet links seem to have died so if you can point me at good threads/pages i'll happily read onwards.
I've been scouring the forum for a while, hindered somewhat by the nonfunctional search engine! I'm not a stupid newbie who can't find the button!
I'm now in a position to procure a Cerbera, specifically i'm after the 4.5 in order to fulfil those boyhood dreams as i'm sure most of you have! I'm not mechanically inept by any stretch of the imagination, but i'm looking for the sort of in-the-know stuff that you only get from long time owners.
I'm looking to get the best example I can with the intention of it becoming a long term affair, as my current pair have been. I'm after the later models specifically, keeping the mileage under 35-40k but coming with all the toys.
Some examples of the sorts of cars that have been raising an eyebrow:
Black 2003 at Tony Gilbert: http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1208892.htm
Purple 2002 Private: http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1983184.htm
The first one concerns me in that it's been for sale for approx 3 months which sort of makes you wonder if it's overpriced, or rotten. The latter, (owned by dirty boy) seems a thorough advert which gives you a good feeling of care, but the price seems a little high. Very unusual colour.
I notice that prices fluctuate all over the place for the V8's, with the latest models commanding the premium. Is there an exhaustive list of the 2001 onwards differences as i've seen numerous references to a 2nd edition type changeover? Did they all get Xenons for instance?
Aside from the outriggers are there any other known trouble spots? I've read numerous times about having a chassis inspection done - who would be able to undertake such a service? I'm not mechanically incompetent but then it's not a small sum to be changing hands either. Can you view the problematic areas well enough with a jack? (Where are the safe points for jacking by the way?) or is it really something that you've got to get a pro onto?
Anything you can add that's helpful would be greatly received. Most of the internet links seem to have died so if you can point me at good threads/pages i'll happily read onwards.
Edited by tvrfan007 on Tuesday 31st August 18:38
There are many, many links on here, as someone who is just selling his (sob,sob) you just look for the loved ones that have full history and have had all the bits done over time. Once you read the second ad you put in he just has to say the "emotional bits" and you know he loves his car more than the wife and it will be a good one. Dont think the price is high a good car will fetch a good price? You can buy a good looking car for 15k and easily spend 5k on it?
Everybody will tell you buying and selling these are emotinal, all PH owners tend to love and look after there cars and dont believe anyone that tells you there car has cost them hardly anything to run, you just seem to spend money on them, its like a very expensive girlfriend? Worth the money for the ride of your life????
If you have a budget just be carefull and look at lots, learn from owners and read the full history, see what has been upgraded, replaced etc etc. Like mine, I have every detail from the original invoice and pictures of collection from TVR to every pound spent on her since then. Does not mean it might not break down on the way home it is a TVR!!!! I think all on here will agree once bitten you are hooked for life. Good luck
Everybody will tell you buying and selling these are emotinal, all PH owners tend to love and look after there cars and dont believe anyone that tells you there car has cost them hardly anything to run, you just seem to spend money on them, its like a very expensive girlfriend? Worth the money for the ride of your life????
If you have a budget just be carefull and look at lots, learn from owners and read the full history, see what has been upgraded, replaced etc etc. Like mine, I have every detail from the original invoice and pictures of collection from TVR to every pound spent on her since then. Does not mean it might not break down on the way home it is a TVR!!!! I think all on here will agree once bitten you are hooked for life. Good luck
I've just been through the same process.
I didn't get an inspection done. I have mixed feelings about whether it's worth it although if you've got the extra money it can't be a bad thing. Two heads, four eyes etc are better than one and two!!
I concentrated mostly on chassis condition. It is possible to do only a superficial inspection without getting under the car. I nearly bought a car subject to the seller getting it onto a ramp whereby I could give it a full inspection. I reckon someone with reasonable mechanical sense should be able to determine whether it is sound or not. I used to be a mechanical engineer so I felt comfortable with that bit.
The rest of it is a matter of piecing together the condition, the mileage and listen. I'm sure I could have got caught out but in most cases if you are thorough and don't buy with your heart it is possible to piece together what a car has been through. I know of one person who got a specialist to inspect the car and ended up with a big bill soon after the inspection for something that wasn't spotted. So you pays your money and takes your choice.
I had to drive mine over 300 miles home and it ran faultlessly as it has over the time since.
I'm sure there are some who will just say that I was lucky.
You decide!!
I didn't get an inspection done. I have mixed feelings about whether it's worth it although if you've got the extra money it can't be a bad thing. Two heads, four eyes etc are better than one and two!!
I concentrated mostly on chassis condition. It is possible to do only a superficial inspection without getting under the car. I nearly bought a car subject to the seller getting it onto a ramp whereby I could give it a full inspection. I reckon someone with reasonable mechanical sense should be able to determine whether it is sound or not. I used to be a mechanical engineer so I felt comfortable with that bit.
The rest of it is a matter of piecing together the condition, the mileage and listen. I'm sure I could have got caught out but in most cases if you are thorough and don't buy with your heart it is possible to piece together what a car has been through. I know of one person who got a specialist to inspect the car and ended up with a big bill soon after the inspection for something that wasn't spotted. So you pays your money and takes your choice.
I had to drive mine over 300 miles home and it ran faultlessly as it has over the time since.
I'm sure there are some who will just say that I was lucky.
You decide!!
aside..
don't forget tvr webmart and tvrcc for a few more classified ads
and dare I say it autotrader too!
my experience of post 2000 TVR chassis has seen v.little problems - looked at a fair number of both Tuscans and Cerbs. Rotten metal has a different sound to solid too. If you are prepared to get dirty then you should be able to see enough chassis to convince yourself.
the "revised" Cerbs have Tuscan style seats as the most obvious change - on a 4.5 look under the bonnet for the washer bottle filler being NOT in the centre - the front part engine cover also has TVR embossed in it too. Earlier models do not have this AFAIK!
Headlights are often changed and Spiders too so you can't rely on it.
someone I am sure will know what chassis number the changes happened from.....
don't forget tvr webmart and tvrcc for a few more classified ads
and dare I say it autotrader too!
my experience of post 2000 TVR chassis has seen v.little problems - looked at a fair number of both Tuscans and Cerbs. Rotten metal has a different sound to solid too. If you are prepared to get dirty then you should be able to see enough chassis to convince yourself.
the "revised" Cerbs have Tuscan style seats as the most obvious change - on a 4.5 look under the bonnet for the washer bottle filler being NOT in the centre - the front part engine cover also has TVR embossed in it too. Earlier models do not have this AFAIK!
Headlights are often changed and Spiders too so you can't rely on it.
someone I am sure will know what chassis number the changes happened from.....
Edited by Chewitt on Tuesday 31st August 22:42
I am in a similar position at the moment but have not decided whether to go for a Cerb or Tuscan. I am in the research phase and reading everything I can.
I am not very mechanically minded so will be having an inspection done. I know a few have had inspections carried out by Rob Ingleby. Others have had a TVR specialist cast their eye over it in the workshop. It may be worthwhile having a chat with the garage that have carried out the servicing previously as they should know the car.
A comprehensive service history is key as is the need to ensure to make sure the engine is properly warmed before giving it the beans. Check any receipts for clutch replacement. There are no guarantees but I understand they tend to last between 20 - 25k & will cost circa 1k to replace.
Servicing is every 6k miles with a major one every 12k. Be prepared to spend money on a regular basis!
I am not very mechanically minded so will be having an inspection done. I know a few have had inspections carried out by Rob Ingleby. Others have had a TVR specialist cast their eye over it in the workshop. It may be worthwhile having a chat with the garage that have carried out the servicing previously as they should know the car.
A comprehensive service history is key as is the need to ensure to make sure the engine is properly warmed before giving it the beans. Check any receipts for clutch replacement. There are no guarantees but I understand they tend to last between 20 - 25k & will cost circa 1k to replace.
Servicing is every 6k miles with a major one every 12k. Be prepared to spend money on a regular basis!
i've had mine around a month now, when i looked at the car i brought an 04 late 4.5 model i took a expendable mirror so that i could look underneath properly. the car had a good history although low mileage. I was able to look at all the work that had been carried out on it. In the first month of owner ship i have spent about £500 getting little bits done that i weren't happy with including the door seals, still leaking, steering wheel buttons, all working now. Gave the car a detail today and whilst yes i noticed a few more little scratches i am happy with the condition of the car. although noticed a patch on the drive today that i need to look at, but is clear although a little oily in texture not colour and doesn't taste of anything????
Thanks for the pointers guys, it's all good advice.
I'm by no means going in blind, and fully appreciate that any car, anywhere can leave you stranded. I've had all those comments about reliability from my friends and co-workers, and quite frankly it fazes me not - as long as i don't end up on first name terms with my local RAC crew!
I have entered this with my sensible head on - I'm a mechanical engineer by trade, and as an extra safe backup my automotive engineer friend will be attending with me as the voice of reason! Between us we should be pretty well equipped. It's not the end of the world to me if it needs a body-off refurb at some stage of it's life, I just don't want to buy one that will crumble under the prodding of next years MOT!
I shall certainly not be buying one without seeing it on a ramp and doing some prodding myself.
Then it's onto the upgrades.
I'm by no means going in blind, and fully appreciate that any car, anywhere can leave you stranded. I've had all those comments about reliability from my friends and co-workers, and quite frankly it fazes me not - as long as i don't end up on first name terms with my local RAC crew!
I have entered this with my sensible head on - I'm a mechanical engineer by trade, and as an extra safe backup my automotive engineer friend will be attending with me as the voice of reason! Between us we should be pretty well equipped. It's not the end of the world to me if it needs a body-off refurb at some stage of it's life, I just don't want to buy one that will crumble under the prodding of next years MOT!
I shall certainly not be buying one without seeing it on a ramp and doing some prodding myself.
Then it's onto the upgrades.
Edited by tvrfan007 on Wednesday 1st September 11:26
A Cerbera is a car you buy with your Heart, not your head. It's a car that you will always be doing something to at weekends because there is always something that needs doing.
They are wonderful cars, but at times you will be pulling your hair out over them and cursng the way they empty your wallet. But when they are on song, and you are blasting it down an open road and embarrasing that bloke in his new £100,000 Aston Martin, then it all becomes worth it, and you will understand why we all love them so much (and very occasionally hate them)
When you go and look at one, let your 'gut' feeling about the current owner pay a big part in your decision making. Most of us would rather send the Missus out onto the street working, than skimp on something that needed doing on the car.
They are wonderful cars, but at times you will be pulling your hair out over them and cursng the way they empty your wallet. But when they are on song, and you are blasting it down an open road and embarrasing that bloke in his new £100,000 Aston Martin, then it all becomes worth it, and you will understand why we all love them so much (and very occasionally hate them)
When you go and look at one, let your 'gut' feeling about the current owner pay a big part in your decision making. Most of us would rather send the Missus out onto the street working, than skimp on something that needed doing on the car.
this might be an interesting punt?
claims to just have had a rebuild...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1998-TVR-CERBERA-4-5-RED-NO-...
claims to just have had a rebuild...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1998-TVR-CERBERA-4-5-RED-NO-...
I noticed that Ebay one as well.
It sounded to me like it needed quite a bit doing and may have been run on a relative shoestring, since the owner mentions fixing this and that.
I will be interested to see what it fetches. Personally, I would be cautious about buying a car that had just had an engine rebuild. It depends who the 'specialist' is that did the work.
I've got mine now but I've stuck that one into my watch list anyway, just out of curiosity!!
TT
It sounded to me like it needed quite a bit doing and may have been run on a relative shoestring, since the owner mentions fixing this and that.
I will be interested to see what it fetches. Personally, I would be cautious about buying a car that had just had an engine rebuild. It depends who the 'specialist' is that did the work.
I've got mine now but I've stuck that one into my watch list anyway, just out of curiosity!!
TT
The black one at Tony Gilberts would have been mine if it had been availble about 2 months earlier!
I sold him my Tuscan 2 last september and took a jag estate in P/X because there wasnt any other vehicle that was availble at the time.
Had the Cerb been there I would have snapped it up!
Have a look at it, and while there, marvel at the view from Tonys 'office' !
Probably open to a deal too, he loves a haggle!
Stu
I sold him my Tuscan 2 last september and took a jag estate in P/X because there wasnt any other vehicle that was availble at the time.
Had the Cerb been there I would have snapped it up!
Have a look at it, and while there, marvel at the view from Tonys 'office' !
Probably open to a deal too, he loves a haggle!
Stu
Arranged to visit Tony next week, seeing as he's just down the road from where I work! He has a couple of V8s and a Speed six so I can have a look and a feel at a few.
Tony will, I presume, be covered to allow people to drive the vehicle, but in the event that he's not - or indeed i'm attending a private viewing where the owner will expect insurance, can anyone recommend a place that will actually entertain day insurance on a Cerbera? My own insurance company tell me they can't help unless I actually own the vehicle. That's the whole point of a test drive...
It's kind of hard to convey to someone that you're not just a test pilot that wants to bury the throttle into the piles of the carpet. I want to make sure it goes straight, stops straight and makes no unwelcome noises!
What I would say to the above is don't jump to hate the home mechanic. Fixing the car yourself doesn't mean you're running it on a shoestring per se, it can also mean that you a) enjoy the work and b) can be 100% confident the job is done and done right! I quote you the example of my friends mother, collecting her 6 month old Civic Type R from it's oil change only to have the oil light come on halfway home and the engine seize - sump plug not tight! Cue legal wranglings! there are good TVR dealers, and bad ones just like every other brand!
Tony will, I presume, be covered to allow people to drive the vehicle, but in the event that he's not - or indeed i'm attending a private viewing where the owner will expect insurance, can anyone recommend a place that will actually entertain day insurance on a Cerbera? My own insurance company tell me they can't help unless I actually own the vehicle. That's the whole point of a test drive...
It's kind of hard to convey to someone that you're not just a test pilot that wants to bury the throttle into the piles of the carpet. I want to make sure it goes straight, stops straight and makes no unwelcome noises!
What I would say to the above is don't jump to hate the home mechanic. Fixing the car yourself doesn't mean you're running it on a shoestring per se, it can also mean that you a) enjoy the work and b) can be 100% confident the job is done and done right! I quote you the example of my friends mother, collecting her 6 month old Civic Type R from it's oil change only to have the oil light come on halfway home and the engine seize - sump plug not tight! Cue legal wranglings! there are good TVR dealers, and bad ones just like every other brand!
Edited by tvrfan007 on Thursday 2nd September 12:21
Tony also let me take the Griff that I subsequently bought off of him out for a test drive on my own. I did not bring any insurance docs with me and I am pretty sure he didn't insist on going over my licence with a fine tooth comb.
He's also not at all pushy and you can have as much time as you want to have a good look around the car(s) without him standing over your shoulder.
He's also not at all pushy and you can have as much time as you want to have a good look around the car(s) without him standing over your shoulder.
The Cerbera with no reserve is mine!
It has done 6k since the rebuild, so hardly 'just'rebuilt'
I did a deal with a Mercedes ML500 that I had as the market was really dropping when I did the deal, I came out better!
There is a stack of history with the car, the handbooks and both sets of 'keys'.
The car has been mostly maintained at fenhursts in it's early life, After that it has been used as a weekend car (whilst still being maintained properly), My friend owning it since 2003(lives in Alderley Edge if you know where that is?) and myself since 2007. I could count the number of times I have been for a propper drive on my hand. I have rarely used it due to it being a 6th/7th car and buying it as an investment. I did plan to keep it for life but as I have a wedding coming up and a new kitchen and kitchen roof to buy then it has to go along with my Mrs' to be's P&J
The wipers were terrible when I bought it, and broke soon after due to the rear brass bush in the wiper wearing, the gear having less contact with the armature and stripping the nylon teeth. I bought a recon motor from Adrian.
The starter was replaced prior to me getting the car, the lead came off, I didn't check it so bought a new starter and went to fit it. With the car already in bits I decided to change the starter as it was a much better one than the one that was in it. I sold the old recon one and recouped some of my money back.
The car locked me in once so I unplugged the control box and plugged it back in the wrong way, it blew a track so that just needs fixing and pluging back in.
The rear shocks are a common problem, as are the front, it has done 64k so it is expected that they need replacing, they have been done, many cerbs don't get to 50k without needing new shocks.
If I was to keep the car then I would have the chassis and wishbones sone by SPL or similar, put new carpets in, repair the drivers bolster and possibly give it a coat of paint. Aside from those it will be as new!
Lets be honest, most early Cerbs are needing chassis work, this one is solid, just has surface rust which will happen to all of the chassis as if the powdercoat chips then moisture gets underneath and the chassis rots. With the insides of the chassis not properly protected then they will rot from the inside out too.
Any questions, I dont mind answering on an open forum!
Any inspection welcome!
It has done 6k since the rebuild, so hardly 'just'rebuilt'
I did a deal with a Mercedes ML500 that I had as the market was really dropping when I did the deal, I came out better!
There is a stack of history with the car, the handbooks and both sets of 'keys'.
The car has been mostly maintained at fenhursts in it's early life, After that it has been used as a weekend car (whilst still being maintained properly), My friend owning it since 2003(lives in Alderley Edge if you know where that is?) and myself since 2007. I could count the number of times I have been for a propper drive on my hand. I have rarely used it due to it being a 6th/7th car and buying it as an investment. I did plan to keep it for life but as I have a wedding coming up and a new kitchen and kitchen roof to buy then it has to go along with my Mrs' to be's P&J
The wipers were terrible when I bought it, and broke soon after due to the rear brass bush in the wiper wearing, the gear having less contact with the armature and stripping the nylon teeth. I bought a recon motor from Adrian.
The starter was replaced prior to me getting the car, the lead came off, I didn't check it so bought a new starter and went to fit it. With the car already in bits I decided to change the starter as it was a much better one than the one that was in it. I sold the old recon one and recouped some of my money back.
The car locked me in once so I unplugged the control box and plugged it back in the wrong way, it blew a track so that just needs fixing and pluging back in.
The rear shocks are a common problem, as are the front, it has done 64k so it is expected that they need replacing, they have been done, many cerbs don't get to 50k without needing new shocks.
If I was to keep the car then I would have the chassis and wishbones sone by SPL or similar, put new carpets in, repair the drivers bolster and possibly give it a coat of paint. Aside from those it will be as new!
Lets be honest, most early Cerbs are needing chassis work, this one is solid, just has surface rust which will happen to all of the chassis as if the powdercoat chips then moisture gets underneath and the chassis rots. With the insides of the chassis not properly protected then they will rot from the inside out too.
Any questions, I dont mind answering on an open forum!
Any inspection welcome!
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