ABS on a track car (for a novice)
Discussion
Ok, possibly stupid question, but hey, if you don't ask...
I'll soon be stripping my Golf VR6 out and using it as a track car. It's ideal really, as A) I own it already, B) it's relatively disposable, and C) it's quick, but not too quick for a novice like me.
It'll be used for a couple of TF sessions at the ring, plus 4 or 5 track days in the UK each year. I may also use it for general hooning.
My question is about whether or not to retain the ABS. I've heard that it can unsettle the car when it kicks in, but I can't help but think that locking up is a worse prospect!
I'm a novice, and clearly not a driving god, so would it be a good idea to keep it, or is it nothing but trouble, even for a beginner?
Your thoughts please...
I'll soon be stripping my Golf VR6 out and using it as a track car. It's ideal really, as A) I own it already, B) it's relatively disposable, and C) it's quick, but not too quick for a novice like me.
It'll be used for a couple of TF sessions at the ring, plus 4 or 5 track days in the UK each year. I may also use it for general hooning.
My question is about whether or not to retain the ABS. I've heard that it can unsettle the car when it kicks in, but I can't help but think that locking up is a worse prospect!
I'm a novice, and clearly not a driving god, so would it be a good idea to keep it, or is it nothing but trouble, even for a beginner?
Your thoughts please...
mk1matt said:
I suppose my questions is: is it bad to have ABS on a track car?
If you're going to take the car to the Nordschliefe, keep the ABS. Unless there is an actual problem with the system, you're much safer with it. Loads of cars that race out there have it, including some on which it's been retrofitted.I have disconnected the ABS on my VX220 that I use mainly on track but that is because the ABS on this car is widely acknowledged to be very inferior. However I wouldnt disconnect it as a matter of course on a vehicle with a good ABS system. Also if you intend to use the car on the road you could have problems with insurance if you disconnect it.
I am just thinking out loud here, I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong. But I assume on most cars if you remove the fuse to the ABS it will revert to just not being on and flash up a warning light on the dash. Using this as the basis for my thinking, could you not just cut into the loom one side or the other of the fuse and fit a toggle switch to switch it on and off?
anoyceperson said:
I am just thinking out loud here, I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong. But I assume on most cars if you remove the fuse to the ABS it will revert to just not being on and flash up a warning light on the dash. Using this as the basis for my thinking, could you not just cut into the loom one side or the other of the fuse and fit a toggle switch to switch it on and off?
Thats what I've done, best though to switch it on and off with the ignition offGenerally, on a smooth circuit I much prefer no ABS. it cuts in too early, always at threashold when you have already pared your braking distance to the bone. Once it triggers it massively increases the braking distance and you almost certainly need run off to collect the car. On a bumpier circuit with surfaces of varying grip levels such as the ring or in wet conditions, it becomes more useful. If you run it, in an ideal world you need to run a motorsport optimised abs unit which - if availiable - are very expensive otherwise you will trigger it a lot more often you quicker you get. If you don't run it you will need a brake balance adjustment to change bias as conditions change. If not you will constantly lock your fronts in conditions of low grip which is far from ideal.
Not an easy choice but in general, most experienced drivers prefer not to have it on smooth surfaces but as i say, it needs to be replaced with an in car adjustable bias.
Not an easy choice but in general, most experienced drivers prefer not to have it on smooth surfaces but as i say, it needs to be replaced with an in car adjustable bias.
I'd suggest you check carefully before 'pulling the fuse'. the ABS pump may control the brake bias - meaning 'disabling' the ABS may leave you with an undesirable brake bias - I've had experiance of this on my integra - locking rear wheels very easily into corners on the track - was entertaining but I ended up with one rear tyre looking like a 50p! made so much smoke trying to get slowed down into hairpins that i had a couple of people come up to me in the pits suggesting I must have 'dropped the sump'...
To properly disable/remove the ABS on the integra you need to replace the ABS pump assembly with a non-ABS car's brake bias adjusters and get them setup correctly.
Unsure if all ABS systems work in the same way, but worth finding out before tinkering!
To properly disable/remove the ABS on the integra you need to replace the ABS pump assembly with a non-ABS car's brake bias adjusters and get them setup correctly.
Unsure if all ABS systems work in the same way, but worth finding out before tinkering!
I'd leave it and certainly don't pull the fuse - as others above have suggested ABS systems also have a kind of auto-biasing built in (usually called ABD or similar) - without it you'd really need to fit a bias bar/adjuster. I have a track car with no ABS and a balance bar and braking takes on a whole new dimension to your track day...locking the rears ISN'T fun!!!
Cheers fellas. I'll leave it alone then. Didn't think about the bias thing. I'm not sure how aggressive the ABS is on a Golf VR6 - I've never had it kick in. time will tell I suppose. If anything, it's probably a good indicator that I'm starting to corner quicker than my abilities!
When I'm a driving god, I'll remove it. that may be a while...
When I'm a driving god, I'll remove it. that may be a while...
I've found that at certain tracks braking at the point when the ABS kicks in is helpful. Brake late, ABS kicks in, you're still going too fast to turn-in, so your only choice is to get-out of the brakes altogether & haul on some lock to make the corner. This will provide a good apex speed. With an ABS-equipped car at the track I'd say you're braking too early if you're not constantly leaning on the ABS. Admittedly turning in with the ABS pulsing away will lead to too much understeer & a clumsy transition from braking to power - impacting on weight transfer & it is nuance in front-to-back weight transfer which separates experienced track drivers from the less experienced or the plainly ham-fisted.
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