Would the British car industry still be alive...
Discussion
if their products had been more aesthetically pleasing and a bit less...frumpy?
This is prompted by the Metro thread, and the recent Orion vs Montego thread. TBH, the AR cars were pretty good dynamically, but lets be honest, they're a bit Merrick on the looks front.
Am not particularly thinking TVR, Noble etc, and there are always exceptions, however on the whole during/since the 70's, the output of "BL" was always abysmally styled (IMO, of course) compared to their contemporaries (and I know a lot of the styling was by European design houses).
This is prompted by the Metro thread, and the recent Orion vs Montego thread. TBH, the AR cars were pretty good dynamically, but lets be honest, they're a bit Merrick on the looks front.
Am not particularly thinking TVR, Noble etc, and there are always exceptions, however on the whole during/since the 70's, the output of "BL" was always abysmally styled (IMO, of course) compared to their contemporaries (and I know a lot of the styling was by European design houses).
The British car industry would still be alive and well if they made reliable cars that were competitively priced against the competition.
The hows and whys of why that didn't happen are open to a long debate but that's the crux of it.
I don't think we'd all be driving Rover 400s if they were better looking.....
The hows and whys of why that didn't happen are open to a long debate but that's the crux of it.
I don't think we'd all be driving Rover 400s if they were better looking.....
Seems to me that there were a few more issues involved than that but it certainly wouldn't have done any harm.
In general I think the problem is the same as has hit every British industry, being at the top of the tree at some point and getting complacent.
Seems to be far too many sectors where we've relied on past glory and messed up.
What industries do we actually have any more that we are leading the game and can be proud of......
In general I think the problem is the same as has hit every British industry, being at the top of the tree at some point and getting complacent.
Seems to be far too many sectors where we've relied on past glory and messed up.
What industries do we actually have any more that we are leading the game and can be proud of......
It was a semi tongue in cheek post, I realise the ills of BL wouldn't have been cured if they'd made better looking cars, however I've always been curious to know quite why they chose the designs they did, when their contemporaries were often vastly better looking (subjective, I know).
Did their lack of adventure not compound their issues?
After all French cars in the 70's 80's and 90's were often no better built (probably worse), Ford and Vauxhall were bread and butter cars, often with some pretty ropey underpinnings ('cept the GM powerplants).
Did their lack of adventure not compound their issues?
After all French cars in the 70's 80's and 90's were often no better built (probably worse), Ford and Vauxhall were bread and butter cars, often with some pretty ropey underpinnings ('cept the GM powerplants).
It was the beginning of the end when they were just tarted up Hondas. Their main market turned in to old folk, and old folk would go for the extra grey and more reliable Honda varients all too often.
Being bought by BMW would have worked, if BMW had known what do to with them, but they didn't really seem to have anything in mind, and so failed.
I think they could have survived if they hugely upped their game, but there was never the money to do it. They could not compete with the Japanese brands on quality and reliability, and the European brands all boast a niche of some sort, Rover just did not have this. Equally for dirt cheap cars everybody just started buying Korean, so this was a non-starter. They would have needed I guess to move in to the Alfa Romeo segment, something a bit premium and different, but cheaper than a German version... but it was never going to happen with so little funding.
Being bought by BMW would have worked, if BMW had known what do to with them, but they didn't really seem to have anything in mind, and so failed.
I think they could have survived if they hugely upped their game, but there was never the money to do it. They could not compete with the Japanese brands on quality and reliability, and the European brands all boast a niche of some sort, Rover just did not have this. Equally for dirt cheap cars everybody just started buying Korean, so this was a non-starter. They would have needed I guess to move in to the Alfa Romeo segment, something a bit premium and different, but cheaper than a German version... but it was never going to happen with so little funding.
T84 said:
I think MG were starting to get it right with the ZT...
IMO, it was a step in the right direction but it still, IINM, took the Germans to tell them how to do it.They were always behind the game and I always got the impression they'd never be ahead of it unless they could sell worldwide as the likes of BMW, Audi, etc.
FWIW, I thought the MGF could have been a great little car. Introduced at the right time, sweet handling and good looking it had the right ingredients. It was just that reliability thing again aswell as a slightly 'Pound Stretcher' ambience to it.
I think BMW should've used MG to create properly loud shellsuit like british cars like fast-fords, as I said before I think the ZT/ZT-T looked ace and if they developed that styling more they would've establish a solid brand, one that I would've bought into today.
Basically imagine Fords 'ST' division condensed into a brand (ST170, ST220, etc)...
Basically imagine Fords 'ST' division condensed into a brand (ST170, ST220, etc)...
T84 said:
I think BMW should've used MG to create properly loud shellsuit like british cars like fast-fords, as I said before I think the ZT/ZT-T looked ace and if they developed that styling more they would've establish a solid brand, one that I would've bought into today.
Basically imagine Fords 'ST' division condensed into a brand (ST170, ST220, etc)...
Underneath every Ford 'ST' is a normal Ford: a decent, quality mid-market car.Basically imagine Fords 'ST' division condensed into a brand (ST170, ST220, etc)...
Underneath every Rover was a crap car.
rich_vw said:
I'm blaming the Unions for a proportion of the demise
agreed, workforce striked themselves out of a job. B.A anyone? history repeats.think of the market for cars we have right now.
mg zrs are popular with young folk
land rovers rangerovers great sales right now
the mini bmw raped rover for that.
plenty of others we could have had a very successful car industry covering many of the demands of today but as usual it is squandered.
Nah, I don't think the styling of the cars was worse then the cars themselves....what I'm trying to say is it wasn't as if they had great cars that looked bad and so put people off....they had poorly made cars that were also styled badly.
To be fair not all of them looked bad; Triumph Stag, XJS, Series3 XJ, Rover P6, SD1....all looked great...plenty of others.
To be fair not all of them looked bad; Triumph Stag, XJS, Series3 XJ, Rover P6, SD1....all looked great...plenty of others.
slipstream 1985 said:
rich_vw said:
I'm blaming the Unions for a proportion of the demise
agreed, workforce striked themselves out of a job. B.A anyone? history repeats.pilchardthecat said:
rich_vw said:
I'm blaming the Unions for a proportion of the demise
Management was also partly to blame, the rot set in a longtime before the eventual demise. Lack of investment and complacency being major culprits, and as someone else said earlier too many models competing for the same market.
Unfortunately the same thing happened to the motorcycle industry, the car industry just didn't learn from the demise of the British m/c industry.
swamp said:
T84 said:
I think BMW should've used MG to create properly loud shellsuit like british cars like fast-fords, as I said before I think the ZT/ZT-T looked ace and if they developed that styling more they would've establish a solid brand, one that I would've bought into today.
Basically imagine Fords 'ST' division condensed into a brand (ST170, ST220, etc)...
Underneath every Ford 'ST' is a normal Ford: a decent, quality mid-market car.Basically imagine Fords 'ST' division condensed into a brand (ST170, ST220, etc)...
Underneath every Rover was a crap car.
Our car industry was killed by socialists, basically. Whether in the Unions, or the government, or the public sector mentality of the management and the work force. They all acted as though the industry existed to give them a job. And that isn't what a business is about.
BMW doesn't make cars. BMW makes money.
BMW doesn't make cars. BMW makes money.
swamp said:
T84 said:
I think BMW should've used MG to create properly loud shellsuit like british cars like fast-fords, as I said before I think the ZT/ZT-T looked ace and if they developed that styling more they would've establish a solid brand, one that I would've bought into today.
Basically imagine Fords 'ST' division condensed into a brand (ST170, ST220, etc)...
Underneath every Ford 'ST' is a normal Ford: a decent, quality mid-market car.Basically imagine Fords 'ST' division condensed into a brand (ST170, ST220, etc)...
Underneath every Rover was a crap car.
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