HMRC - Boss and Graduate talk

[Olf]

"Mr Cyril, have you got 5 minutes, I've been doing a bit of work in my lunchtimes and I'd like to show you the result."

"Ok Smith, come into my office."

5 minutes later....

"So in short Smith, you're telling me that we owe 1.4m people £1,500?"

"Yes Mr Cyril."

"Excellent work Smith. Now, I suggest that before you leave work today you find 4.3 million people that owe us £500. Otherwise you can go and meet the Chancellor yourself and tell him how clever you are."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11186397

[Eric Mc]

The answer is that EVERYONE should complete a tax return each year (like in the US).

All these problems seem to be arising with those people who are PAYE only, but have multiple sources of PAYE income, such as second or third jobs or pension income.

[DieselGriff]

Eric you're only saying that because you know the vast majority of people would require the help of an accountant!

Enterprising though I grant you

[Asterix]

Am I the only person that thinks that if HMRC balls it up that they shouldn't be able to claim the additional tax.

If it was a real world company that had underpriced their services by £xxx, they wouldn't be able to demand the balance at a later date.

[Sticks.]

From the BBC report.

"Discrepancies arise when the amounts deducted in tax and National Insurance by employers using the PAYE system do not match the information held on HMRC records.

This most often occurs when individuals change jobs, have more than one job at the same time, or because employers are using the wrong tax code."

[Asterix]

Then their system is broken - too many people affected.

[Sticks.]

Suspect you're right. Even allowing for employer errors, you'd expect accuracy in the 90%s.

[Deva Link]

Asterix said:

Then their system is broken - too many people affected.

They've fixed it now, allegedly. The matching was done manually, now it's automatic as employers have to file electronically.

A friend of my wife used to do this job a few years ago - she said it was an absolute nightmare as they're looking at records from several sources and they rarely match. Still seems a huge number of errors though and presumeably it must go back years but they've only looked at the last 2 years.

[sadoksevoli]

This'll be the same HMRC who sent millions of incorrect tax code notifications out for this tax year, taking weeks to send the correct ones out, during which a lot of people paid a fair bit more PAYE tax than they needed to. The system is a bloody disgrace and is indicative of the dysfunctionality of our public sector and political classes - while the idiots in charge fumble and fiddle with this or that, handing powers over to Brussels, banging on about human rights and spending our money in areas few of us want it spent, they oversee a tax system which is an utter shambles and makes us a laughing stock. Good news for accountants, bad news for everyone in the end.

[Eric Mc]

DieselGriff said:

Eric you're only saying that because you know the vast majority of people would require the help of an accountant!

Enterprising though I grant you

I've been rumbled.

[F i F]

Not to mention that this is the same HMRC who preside over the Children and Working Tax Credits malarkey, another complete waste of money in an inefficient way of working.

The same lot who had an online system that they found was being abused so took it down and then found that the call centre and postal backup systems couldn't cope.

Not to mention that this is the same HMRC who accept a hand delivered set of documents, sign for them, then deny they have ever had them, despite the evidence of signed PoD, demand resubmisison of original documents that they themselves have lost and then try to impose a fine penalty for late supply of documents that :reminder: they had lost before the final day for submission.

Then on another issue, it seems that they are going to send out 43,000 letters to people affected, then wait to see the response from these people before deciding what to do with the rest of the population.

Maybe I'm being simple but WTF?

[Asterix]

F i F said:

Not to mention that this is the same HMRC who preside over the Children and Working Tax Credits malarkey, another complete waste of money in an inefficient way of working.

The same lot who had an online system that they found was being abused so took it down and then found that the call centre and postal backup systems couldn't cope.

Not to mention that this is the same HMRC who accept a hand delivered set of documents, sign for them, then deny they have ever had them, despite the evidence of signed PoD, demand resubmisison of original documents that they themselves have lost and then try to impose a fine penalty for late supply of documents that :reminder: they had lost before the final day for submission.

Then on another issue, it seems that they are going to send out 43,000 letters to people affected, then wait to see the response from these people before deciding what to do with the rest of the population.

Maybe I'm being simple but WTF?

I had a right mare with them a while back - they swore blind that I'd not paid them when I was in a band (only time I wasn't PAYE) and it was only 4 years after the fact they decided that I had paid when they finally admitted that the stuff our accountant had sent through back at the time was all in order - in the meantime, they'd whacked up my tax code and I was due around £9k - again they argued that night was day and I still haven't had it.

Anyway, so I leave the UK (7 years ago) and last year had to apply for non-resident landlord status and I felt physicaly sick knowing that I was going to have to deal with them again. Surprisingly it went through fine but I still have tax to try and claim back as our letting agents decided to send off the tax monies to them. Not looking forward to that

[Flintstone]

F i F said:

Not to mention that this is the same HMRC who preside over the Children and Working Tax Credits malarkey....

You git, I'd forgotten about that. They continued to give me credits even though I'd told them FOUR TIMES my pay had practically doubled. "No need to confirm it in writing sir". Lying s.

Three years later I received a bill for £2800 and was told to ignore it as it had been issued in error. Two weeks later another for £3800, the same. Called them, asked which if either were correct. "Both". They wanted almost £7000 immediately. No time to pay despite it being THEIR cock-up.

I told them they could have it back at the same rate they'd paid me. Took several years

Edited by Flintstone on Saturday 4th September 15:46

[Coco H]

My solution has been to submit a tax return every year for the last 10 years even though recently I haven't needed to do so. I work for a large finanical firm and in 4 years my PAYE Was wrong . I ended up paying HMRC at the end of the year.

[Eric Mc]

Asterix said:

F i F said:

Not to mention that this is the same HMRC who preside over the Children and Working Tax Credits malarkey, another complete waste of money in an inefficient way of working.

The same lot who had an online system that they found was being abused so took it down and then found that the call centre and postal backup systems couldn't cope.

Not to mention that this is the same HMRC who accept a hand delivered set of documents, sign for them, then deny they have ever had them, despite the evidence of signed PoD, demand resubmisison of original documents that they themselves have lost and then try to impose a fine penalty for late supply of documents that :reminder: they had lost before the final day for submission.

Then on another issue, it seems that they are going to send out 43,000 letters to people affected, then wait to see the response from these people before deciding what to do with the rest of the population.

Maybe I'm being simple but WTF?

I had a right mare with them a while back - they swore blind that I'd not paid them when I was in a band (only time I wasn't PAYE) and it was only 4 years after the fact they decided that I had paid when they finally admitted that the stuff our accountant had sent through back at the time was all in order - in the meantime, they'd whacked up my tax code and I was due around £9k - again they argued that night was day and I still haven't had it.

Anyway, so I leave the UK (7 years ago) and last year had to apply for non-resident landlord status and I felt physicaly sick knowing that I was going to have to deal with them again. Surprisingly it went through fine but I still have tax to try and claim back as our letting agents decided to send off the tax monies to them. Not looking forward to that

Your letting agent was complying wiith the law. What you will need to do is submit a Self Assessment Tax Return, completing the Non-Resident Supplementary Pages.
You can do thiis on line - or hire an accountant/agent to do it for you.

[Asterix]

Eric Mc said:

Asterix said:

F i F said:

Not to mention that this is the same HMRC who preside over the Children and Working Tax Credits malarkey, another complete waste of money in an inefficient way of working.

The same lot who had an online system that they found was being abused so took it down and then found that the call centre and postal backup systems couldn't cope.

Not to mention that this is the same HMRC who accept a hand delivered set of documents, sign for them, then deny they have ever had them, despite the evidence of signed PoD, demand resubmisison of original documents that they themselves have lost and then try to impose a fine penalty for late supply of documents that :reminder: they had lost before the final day for submission.

Then on another issue, it seems that they are going to send out 43,000 letters to people affected, then wait to see the response from these people before deciding what to do with the rest of the population.

Maybe I'm being simple but WTF?

I had a right mare with them a while back - they swore blind that I'd not paid them when I was in a band (only time I wasn't PAYE) and it was only 4 years after the fact they decided that I had paid when they finally admitted that the stuff our accountant had sent through back at the time was all in order - in the meantime, they'd whacked up my tax code and I was due around £9k - again they argued that night was day and I still haven't had it.

Anyway, so I leave the UK (7 years ago) and last year had to apply for non-resident landlord status and I felt physicaly sick knowing that I was going to have to deal with them again. Surprisingly it went through fine but I still have tax to try and claim back as our letting agents decided to send off the tax monies to them. Not looking forward to that

Your letting agent was complying wiith the law. What you will need to do is submit a Self Assessment Tax Return, completing the Non-Resident Supplementary Pages.
You can do thiis on line - or hire an accountant/agent to do it for you.

I know they were complying - The problem was that the tax office got our original NRL forms and lost them, so the delay in them telling us - we chased them after a month of not hearing anything, funnily enough... - meant they approved our status a week after the agents had to sent the money over. We get paid a 6 months in advance lump from our tenants so it was a fair bit of money that meant we had to pay the mortgage for 2 months instead of having covered.

It's a st system, they are incompetent and it always, without fail, becomes a problem for the bloke just trying to get on with life.

[Eric Mc]

Did you file the form on-line or by paper?

[Asterix]

Eric Mc said:

Did you file the form on-line or by paper?

Paper - we were specificaly told (by HMRC) that it must have our original signatures on the docs. I downloaded them from their site and then couriered them.

[Eric Mc]

Asterix said:

Eric Mc said:

Did you file the form on-line or by paper?

Paper - we were specificaly told (by HMRC) that it must have our original signatures on the docs. I downloaded them from their site and then couriered them.

On-line is the fastest and best way to file Self Assessment tax returns. By filing on-line you essentiially bypass HMRC personnel and their inefficient post and filing system completely. If you have an agent appointed to look after your tax affairs in the UK, that agent can file the tax return on your behalf. On line tax returns are not signed in the traditional way. They are submitted after the taxpayer or his agent has acquired a filing PIN and authentification code.

[Sticks.]

Heard about this on R4 - whether HMRC can automatically demand the underpayment now http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/epmanual/ep6618.htm

Interesting other aspect for some is that if you were receiving Tax Credits, the amount you received took into account the tax being paid (apparently). So if you should have paid more tax, the Tax Creit would have been paid at a higher rate as your net income would have been lower. So if you now have to pay the 'extra' tax, you ought to be able to claim the extra Tax Credits. But I suspect you won't be able to.