Slightly odd what car: Thinking of an Audi S4, alternatives?

[McSam]

Hi guys,

Having really come to like my current 1996 Audi A4 with the 2.6 engine - see my profile - the natural thing to do when I've enough cash seemed to be to get a similar-aged S4. A slightly newer, better-equipped version of the same car but with 4WD and a 265bhp biturbo V6 sounds very attractive to me right now!

Specifically, I'd be hunting a Nogaro Blue one, so it'd look something like this baby:


Now, though, I'm starting to wonder if I should be looking at alternatives, so here's the crux of the "What car?" question. An enthusiastic young driver who does buggerall miles a year and doesn't really need a very practical car, though obviously that's handy, with a projected budget of perhaps £4-5k (to match what a decent S4 would cost). Fuel economy isn't much of a problem, but insurance could well be - by the time I'll have the money, the S4's affordable to insure, so that ballpark of insurance cost. It wants to be quick, though. I'm not spoilt for speed right with the A4 I have now, but I'm getting used to it and want more, so the question really is how much performance can I get for the money, without being in something that feels lower-quality than the A4?

I don't like being ordinary with my choices of car, but I suppose at my age then any option that'll come up will be satisfyingly unusual.

Summary of my (possibly fanciful ) hopes:

• £5k maximum budget.
• Rapid as possible, involving drive.
• Not ridiculous for a 20-21-year-old to insure.
• Manual gearbox.
• Good-looking - doesn't have to be stunning/turn heads, but I need to be very happy to have it on my drive!
• Decent build quality/equipment.
• Not catastrophically unreliable.

In just about that order of priorities.

Since I'm not in a position to buy right now, budget-stretching a little can be condoned - it'll be a bit cheaper by the time I can do it!

Possibles I've considered:
Jag XJ: Almost all auto, which I wouldn't like, and probably not much fun to hoon around in?
BMW M3: I think my only reason against this is "not wanting to have an M3".. Should I overcome this?
Alfa 156 GTA: Possibly hard to find at this money, reputedly too much power for its own good?
TVR Chimeara: I'd love it but probably can't afford to buy, insure or run it.


I was going to title this "talk me out of an Audi S4", and that's basically it - what else is out there for me? I appreciate it's vague, but I bet your collective genius can help

[anonymous-user]

Supra/Soarer?

And before you moan, I've found that insurance is very reasonable, especially compared to Evos, STIs, Skylines and the like. One would certainly tick all of your boxes.

[GravelBen]

[slightly biased] Legacy RSK / GTB? [/slightly biased]

Edited by GravelBen on Sunday 5th September 13:40

[Wadeski]

tuned up Silvia or MR2 Turbo (4-5k would get you a nice one done well to about 350bhp) would probably tick the boxes. Not sure about insurance though, speak to Sky or Chris Knott and see.

[McSam]

brickwall said:

Hi,

I'm in a similar situation myself. From my investigations, you can exclude any M3, Subaru or Evo as the insurance on these is just silly.

Hmm, seems you've got to be 21 to insure an M3 with my company.. But an S4 is fine from 18, nice logic! Redoing quotes for 21, yes, you're quite correct - £2700 for an M3 Evo, £2500 for a 3.0, while the S4 would be a grand.

Simps said:

Supra/Soarer?

And before you moan, I've found that insurance is very reasonable, especially compared to Evos, STIs, Skylines and the like. One would certainly tick all of your boxes.

Hadn't thought of that at all! An RZ, again, requires me to be 21 and is nearly double the S4's premium, but an SZ is only about 30% more to insure. Hmmmm.. I guess you were thinking of an RZ? The NA ones can be had on the cheap, though, so it's a nice idea..

ETA: An MR2 I quite like the sound of, but it's not a lot of car for the money and I'd probably look at it if I wanted to spend less. £2-3k still looks like a budget to get a very good one?

The Legacy, hmmm.. Ideally not an estate or an auto as they mostly are, but I like the sleeper-ness. What're they like to drive? In your unbiased opinion

Edited by McSam on Sunday 5th September 13:56

[MudasarKhan]

The Audi S4 is something I've been considering myself. It's a fab car which ticks many boxes being 4wd and 4/5dr.

If you are to get one, consider getting it mapped from a reputable company, pushing the bhp to 310+. Also little things like after-run pump mod would be recommended and and exhaust which will see you around 325bhp.

The good things about the S4 is that once you get bored, if you have the £££ more power is available. The engine is similar to the RS4, so you can upgrade your S4 to match that level of power and beyond.

What ever you do, make sure the timing belt has been changed (aswell as the water pump and thermostat) and the car comes with history.

Hope you enjoy these beasts, and I'm not far from owning one myself.(fingers crossed)

[McSam]

Cheers for that

The tuning potential is actually part of the reason I gravitated towards the S4 in the first place, the engine seems massively capable. MRC do a map for it, and their bored-out 700+bhp S4 has just hit 200mph - seems like the kinda car I could keep for years and gradually make incredible.

I'm quite tempted by a Supra, but the weird insurance fluke that makes a UK-spec twin-turbo have a lower premium than the S4 also makes an imported one twice as expensive..

[anonymous-user]

McSam said:

Hadn't thought of that at all! An RZ, again, requires me to be 21 and is nearly double the S4's premium, but an SZ is only about 30% more to insure. Hmmmm.. I guess you were thinking of an RZ? The NA ones can be had on the cheap, though, so it's a nice idea..

Maybe try a UK one (far cheaper to insure) but you may struggle to find a UK manual in your budget.

Then there is the Soarer. Very similar to the Supra but tailored more to the luxury market. Still a jolly good car though, insurance isn't bad (I have one at 19!)

Something like this http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2017891.htm

(although it is highly priced. Manuals tend to go from £3000+ upwards.)

Edited by Simps on Sunday 5th September 14:08

[anonymous-user]

Oh, and what about a A6 2.7 instead of the S4?

Exactly the same engine (baring downpipes and mapping) as the S4, just a bit bigger (and from my research, a fair bit cheaper to insure).

Edited by Simps on Sunday 5th September 14:10

[Japveesix]

As mentioned above:

200SX - 300bhp (stage 1 tuned):

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2027793.htm

Galant VR4 - 2.5 twin turbo, 280bhp

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2019092.htm

Legacy 3.0 R Spec B - 245bhp, 0-60 in 6.5 ish

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1752557.htm

Mondeo ST220 - may not be quick enough but will be much newer and lower mileage than an equivalent priced S4. Cheaper on insurance too.

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1859057.htm

Camaro Z28 - 5.7L V8. 300bhp will recommend one of these shortly so may as well beat him to it (Automatic but nevermind)

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1845275.htm

Integra type-r DC2 - won't keep up with an S4 in a straight line but more fun in a corner?

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2035401.htm

MG ZT 260 V8 - might be able to find one in budget with some luck (this is £6k)

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1973144.htm

SAAAAAB 9-5 Hot 2.3Turbo, 250bhp and 32mpg and tuneable (I think?) - I quite like this:

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1699031.htm


Not sure I'd buy a £5k supra, seems difficult to find a decent manual TT for that price anyway.

[Wadeski]

you will get a good MR2 or Silvia for 2-3k, but not a fast one. It looked like you wanted 300+bhp?

[McSam]

I haven't yet come across a UK manual Supra, but one would be insurable 320bhp, are they not? I'll have to look into the Soarer as well, hopefully they'd be a bit cheaper but insurance isn't looking much better with them all(?) being imports.

I did think about the A6 with the same engine, forgot to mention that - but it seems to me like paying about the same (saloons are rare) for a less powerful, heavier car. While the luxury would be lovely, it's probably also bigger than I need it to be.

ETA - Thanks for the selection, Japveesix! I like that 200SX, actually, and that's a hell of a lot of bang for the buck. I suppose there are a fair few around too, the only thing that concerns me a bit is the image. Not quite the understatement of the Audi, but I'm not sure how much I'd care if it was silly quick!

I'm really surprised at how much money ST220s have lost, though! It's probably slower and more FWD than I'd want, but I'm staggered that a nice-looking 2004 example like that is actually in the budget. And it is a very nice-looking car.. Just a shame it lacks a turbo and a rear diff

Americana had completely escaped my mind, didn't think it was really in-budget - a Camaro would be pretty spectacular, and it's perfectly insurable too! What are they like to run, though, prodigious appetite for fuel aside?
Auto I'd cope with on one of those.

It's worth saying that I've never been a huge fan of Japanese imports (with the exception of Skyline GT-Rs, there's a thought..) and it'd have to be pretty special for me to go there. I'm also trying to avoid looking too much older than I am, I know I'm close with a four-door saloon as top choice, but still. The Saab looks nice, but possibly neutered to drive?

Wadeski said:

you will get a good MR2 or Silvia for 2-3k, but not a fast one. It looked like you wanted 300+bhp?

That area, yeah - but I have it in my head that a car that's been tuned way above standard tends to cost the same as a "greater" car that's about as fast anyway, if you see what I mean?

Edited by McSam on Sunday 5th September 14:30

[MudasarKhan]

McSam said:

MRC do a map for it, and their bored-out 700+bhp S4 has just hit 200mph

They do a 6th gear cog which will take your gearing to 200mph, but the car mentioned above didnt just do 200mph, it did it at VMAX. If you look at the length of tarmac there that is impressive.

Practicality and tuning potential is why am gunnin' for the S4. But am sure supra's are very good cars but lack 4wd and practicality (going to be a dad anytime soon transporting your little one around in the wet/snow?)

I know I know, being a bit too fussy there, but decide with your heart and buy with your head.

[thinfourth2]

Take you brave pills and buy a caterfield

Bugger all to insure bugger all depreciation bugger all toys buggering fast and buggering fun

[McSam]

MudasarKhan said:

McSam said:

MRC do a map for it, and their bored-out 700+bhp S4 has just hit 200mph

They do a 6th gear cog which will take your gearing to 200mph, but the car mentioned above didnt just do 200mph, it did it at VMAX. If you look at the length of tarmac there that is impressive.

Practicality and tuning potential is why am gunnin' for the S4. But am sure supra's are very good cars but lack 4wd and practicality (going to be a dad anytime soon transporting your little one around in the wet/snow?)

I know I know, being a bit too fussy there, but decide with your heart and buy with your head.

I know, the length of runway they had makes it all the more impressive. Some fag-packet sums say that the car should be capable of about 230mph, which is.. Quite astonishing

The main thing pulling me in is that it's an Audi, I know it's going to feel like it's been made properly (even if it hasn't!) and I know it won't irritate me all the time. Family's not on the cards for a good time yet, but you still raise a good point.

thinfourth2 said:

Take you brave pills and buy a caterfield

Bugger all to insure bugger all depreciation bugger all toys buggering fast and buggering fun

And bugger it, I can't afford one
Which variants are there, that aren't Caterhams/Westfields, that I could afford? And we should probably bear in mind that it'd be my main car, not sure I have THAT many brave pills..

Edited by McSam on Sunday 5th September 14:39

[thinfourth2]

McSam said:

thinfourth2 said:

Take you brave pills and buy a caterfield

Bugger all to insure bugger all depreciation bugger all toys buggering fast and buggering fun

And bugger it, I can't afford one
Which variants are there, that aren't Caterhams/Westfields, that I could afford? And we should probably bear in mind that it'd be my main car, not sure I have THAT many brave pills..

Go look at cock wombles thread running a 7 as his only car


Also once you look at the running costs you might find you can afford one

For example my insurance is £130 a year even if you double it it is still nothing compared to a tin top

[McSam]

thinfourth2 said:

McSam said:

thinfourth2 said:

Take you brave pills and buy a caterfield

Bugger all to insure bugger all depreciation bugger all toys buggering fast and buggering fun

And bugger it, I can't afford one
Which variants are there, that aren't Caterhams/Westfields, that I could afford? And we should probably bear in mind that it'd be my main car, not sure I have THAT many brave pills..

Go look at cock wombles thread running a 7 as his only car


Also once you look at the running costs you might find you can afford one

For example my insurance is £130 a year even if you double it it is still nothing compared to a tin top

I'll hunt that thread down and see.. The problem would be my age, I suppose. Who do you insure yours with?

[ManOpener]

E36 M3- in Saloon guise. Like an M3, but not.

Edited by ManOpener on Sunday 5th September 14:56

[TheStig44]

I was almost in the exact same position as you a 2 months ago or so. I just fancied a car with a true tower of power (relative to my previous cars) under the bonnet.

Im 21 so insurance was also an issue but this is what I ended up with...








282-ish BHP, 120k miles and rather spotless condition all for £2000

Ok it might not look much (the S4 you pictured looks way cooler) but it does what I wanted it to do!

I have to confess though that im already getting bored of the power I have really been struggling to think of cars that fit my critera (same as yours) and the only car I could think of is an E55 AMG, although heard a few scare stories about em...

An S4 is deffinately a good idea though, seems much more tuneable than the BM. I really need to get this power trip out of my system!!

[thinfourth2]

McSam said:

thinfourth2 said:

McSam said:

thinfourth2 said:

Take you brave pills and buy a caterfield

Bugger all to insure bugger all depreciation bugger all toys buggering fast and buggering fun

And bugger it, I can't afford one
Which variants are there, that aren't Caterhams/Westfields, that I could afford? And we should probably bear in mind that it'd be my main car, not sure I have THAT many brave pills..

Go look at cock wombles thread running a 7 as his only car


Also once you look at the running costs you might find you can afford one

For example my insurance is £130 a year even if you double it it is still nothing compared to a tin top

I'll hunt that thread down and see.. The problem would be my age, I suppose. Who do you insure yours with?

frank pickles

But try adrian flux and search blatchat for insurers of sevens as kit car insurance can be quite silly