997 C2S WONT START WHEN ENGINE IS HOT
Discussion
Hi all,
I've been visiting PH for over a year but only got around to registering now, prompted by my need of some help, advice or inspiration! I bought a damaged 2006 997s with 43k miles & full OPFSH in Sept 2009 from a friend of mine who had owned the car from new. It had been hit from behind in traffic by a truck and pushed into a 4x4 in front.Damage was light enough but the engine/box had to come out so i could jig the car and repair a kink on the d/s rear chassis leg. The exhaust system took most of the impact and both manifolds were kinked, but there was no impact damage to the engine.
Car is now repaired and back on the road but my problem is when cold the car starts no problem and runs fine until it reaches normal running temp. Then if you drive it or bring revs up it will cut out when revs drop and won't restart. Engine turns over but wont fire. After trying for about 5 mins to start it the starter motor burnt out. I had the starter rebuilt and refitted it. Checked all the earths, wiring etc. and had the alternator checked over. Car started no problem but exactly the same thing happened and then the starter burnt out again. Diagnostics shows no faults but a PASM faults come up when it cuts out.
Just wondering if anyone has had similar issues. I'm in Ireland so specialists are few & far between. Any help would be appreciated. Will probably end up having to trailer the car to the uk.
Cheers.
I've been visiting PH for over a year but only got around to registering now, prompted by my need of some help, advice or inspiration! I bought a damaged 2006 997s with 43k miles & full OPFSH in Sept 2009 from a friend of mine who had owned the car from new. It had been hit from behind in traffic by a truck and pushed into a 4x4 in front.Damage was light enough but the engine/box had to come out so i could jig the car and repair a kink on the d/s rear chassis leg. The exhaust system took most of the impact and both manifolds were kinked, but there was no impact damage to the engine.
Car is now repaired and back on the road but my problem is when cold the car starts no problem and runs fine until it reaches normal running temp. Then if you drive it or bring revs up it will cut out when revs drop and won't restart. Engine turns over but wont fire. After trying for about 5 mins to start it the starter motor burnt out. I had the starter rebuilt and refitted it. Checked all the earths, wiring etc. and had the alternator checked over. Car started no problem but exactly the same thing happened and then the starter burnt out again. Diagnostics shows no faults but a PASM faults come up when it cuts out.
Just wondering if anyone has had similar issues. I'm in Ireland so specialists are few & far between. Any help would be appreciated. Will probably end up having to trailer the car to the uk.
Cheers.
Sounds interesting!
Bent flywheel perhaps???
If not then I would be thinking electrical. Perhaps something shorting somewhere or maybe not.. could be a bit of a hunt this one!
Again, I know little of P engines, so might be best to wait for someone who does know what they are talking about!
Has there been any contact onto the block? What speed was the crash? Any pics?
Bent flywheel perhaps???
If not then I would be thinking electrical. Perhaps something shorting somewhere or maybe not.. could be a bit of a hunt this one!
Again, I know little of P engines, so might be best to wait for someone who does know what they are talking about!
Has there been any contact onto the block? What speed was the crash? Any pics?
![](http://thumbsnap.com/sc/7E6Dxbai.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="http://thumbsnap.com/rdNBgGJN" Target="_blank">[img]http://thumbsnap.com/sc/rdNBgGJN.jpg)
Thamks for the responce. I feel its unlikely that the flywheel was damaged. As you can see in the photos the damage really wasn't that severe and the car was still driving after impact. One suggestion put to me was that the crank or the crankshaft housing might be bent but again i feel this is unlikely & that if this was the case the car wouldn't start at all.
I've checked all the earths and connections and they all seem fine.
Is it fuel or ignition that is stopping it, can you tell? Most fuel injection cars have a shock sensor somewhere that cuts the fuel pump in the event of an impact.... might be to do with that? but it wouldn't explain why it runs from cold. Could there be anything else that may have been damaged and is breaking down when it gets warm?
I guess if you cant trace it to electrical you might have to drop the engine and get the bottom end checked over, I would expect a bent crank to destroy itself quite quickly and cause a lot of other issues, ie rods brekaing, shells failing, etc.... so I would not expect it to be the crank TBH.
When fitting the starter, are there any spacers or shims that maybe were missing?
Also, have you tried turning the engine over by hand (no idea if you can eaisly do that on a 997) when hot v cold? See if you can feel anything odd. Must be a heck of a resistance to burn out a starter motor TBH as they tend to be able to cope quite well and they will just stall out rather than burn out IYSWIM. (IME with hot race engines anyway)
Sorry I cant be of more help.
When fitting the starter, are there any spacers or shims that maybe were missing?
Also, have you tried turning the engine over by hand (no idea if you can eaisly do that on a 997) when hot v cold? See if you can feel anything odd. Must be a heck of a resistance to burn out a starter motor TBH as they tend to be able to cope quite well and they will just stall out rather than burn out IYSWIM. (IME with hot race engines anyway)
Sorry I cant be of more help.
Never heard of a starter motor 'burning out' on a later car, definitely not two on one car? Unless you are literally cranking it for the 5 minutes without any respite?
Double check the quality of the earth point on the osr chassis leg to the cylinder head, especially if the repair has meant painting that area; it must be 100% clean. Check the voltage drop during starting, put a voltmeter from the battery +ve terminal to the engine it should be less than 1 volt.
There isn't an impact cut-off a la Ford Sierra on the 997, though the airbag ECM can send crash signals to DME / Alarm etc - these would stop the car starting at all rather than causing cutting out.
Double check the quality of the earth point on the osr chassis leg to the cylinder head, especially if the repair has meant painting that area; it must be 100% clean. Check the voltage drop during starting, put a voltmeter from the battery +ve terminal to the engine it should be less than 1 volt.
There isn't an impact cut-off a la Ford Sierra on the 997, though the airbag ECM can send crash signals to DME / Alarm etc - these would stop the car starting at all rather than causing cutting out.
halo997 said:
Hi all,
I've been visiting PH for over a year but only got around to registering now, prompted by my need of some help, advice or inspiration! I bought a damaged 2006 997s with 43k miles & full OPFSH in Sept 2009 from a friend of mine who had owned the car from new. It had been hit from behind in traffic by a truck and pushed into a 4x4 in front.Damage was light enough but the engine/box had to come out so i could jig the car and repair a kink on the d/s rear chassis leg. The exhaust system took most of the impact and both manifolds were kinked, but there was no impact damage to the engine.
Car is now repaired and back on the road but my problem is when cold the car starts no problem and runs fine until it reaches normal running temp. Then if you drive it or bring revs up it will cut out when revs drop and won't restart. Engine turns over but wont fire. After trying for about 5 mins to start it the starter motor burnt out. I had the starter rebuilt and refitted it. Checked all the earths, wiring etc. and had the alternator checked over. Car started no problem but exactly the same thing happened and then the starter burnt out again. Diagnostics shows no faults but a PASM faults come up when it cuts out.
Just wondering if anyone has had similar issues. I'm in Ireland so specialists are few & far between. Any help would be appreciated. Will probably end up having to trailer the car to the uk.
Cheers.
This will need a proper Porsche PIWIS computer (or someone with a Durametric) to find - I would guess it's likely to be lambda sensors as they will probably have been damaged when the exhaust was shunted. A quick 20 minutes on the diagnostic computer will tell you exactly where to look.I've been visiting PH for over a year but only got around to registering now, prompted by my need of some help, advice or inspiration! I bought a damaged 2006 997s with 43k miles & full OPFSH in Sept 2009 from a friend of mine who had owned the car from new. It had been hit from behind in traffic by a truck and pushed into a 4x4 in front.Damage was light enough but the engine/box had to come out so i could jig the car and repair a kink on the d/s rear chassis leg. The exhaust system took most of the impact and both manifolds were kinked, but there was no impact damage to the engine.
Car is now repaired and back on the road but my problem is when cold the car starts no problem and runs fine until it reaches normal running temp. Then if you drive it or bring revs up it will cut out when revs drop and won't restart. Engine turns over but wont fire. After trying for about 5 mins to start it the starter motor burnt out. I had the starter rebuilt and refitted it. Checked all the earths, wiring etc. and had the alternator checked over. Car started no problem but exactly the same thing happened and then the starter burnt out again. Diagnostics shows no faults but a PASM faults come up when it cuts out.
Just wondering if anyone has had similar issues. I'm in Ireland so specialists are few & far between. Any help would be appreciated. Will probably end up having to trailer the car to the uk.
Cheers.
Ian
Thanks for the suggestion Ian. Cats/sensors/exhausts and manifolds were replaced with s/hand units which seemed perfect. Thet'd been taken from a car which had an after market system fitted. To the best of my knowledge diagnostics was done with a Durametric. Unfortunately when she shut down after the starter being redone we didnt turn over by hand while still hot to see if the crank would still turn over by hand. I think this is what i have to do next so i'm sending the starter out to be done again.
Does anyone know is the starter on a 2003 996 c4s wouls be the same as a friend of mine thinks he has one somewhere?
Does anyone know is the starter on a 2003 996 c4s wouls be the same as a friend of mine thinks he has one somewhere?
Changed the starter for one taken from a 2003 996 C4. Car started fine and it ran fine up to normal running temperature. I switched it off and then tried starting again but it turned over slowly. Immediately removed the air box and tried turning it over by hand and the engine had gotten tight.
I'm realy at a loss on this because i cant understand how it can run fine when cold and yet starts to tighten when it warms up. At this stage i can't see any other option but to strip the engine down.
I'm realy at a loss on this because i cant understand how it can run fine when cold and yet starts to tighten when it warms up. At this stage i can't see any other option but to strip the engine down.
Well i've bitten the bullet. Following a few emails with Grant in Hartech i've arranged to bring the car over from Ireland on a trailer to him at the weekend. One possibility he is considering is that the crank could have been slightly bent by the impact.
A technican who use to work for the local OPC in dublin had earlier suggested this but i have to say that i had discounted this as seeming implausible.
So i'll see what the guys in Hartech make of it and i'll post their findings on the forum, one way or another it seems that my wallet in in for a trashing!
A technican who use to work for the local OPC in dublin had earlier suggested this but i have to say that i had discounted this as seeming implausible.
So i'll see what the guys in Hartech make of it and i'll post their findings on the forum, one way or another it seems that my wallet in in for a trashing!
Hi guys.
Well i brought the car over to Hartech two weeks ago and left it in Grants hands to try and get to the bottom of things. They took the engine out and stripped it down and needless to say the news was not good.
They found the oil to be contaminated with metal filings. Two of the crankshaft bearings were damaged which seems to have been the source of the metal filings. These have then caused damage to the pistons and liners. So we are talking about a full engine rebuild.
The guys in Hartech aren't quite sure what caused the damage to the bearings but reckon over heating to be the most likely cause and ruled out the crash as a likely cause of the damage.
Will keep you updated with their progress.
Well i brought the car over to Hartech two weeks ago and left it in Grants hands to try and get to the bottom of things. They took the engine out and stripped it down and needless to say the news was not good.
They found the oil to be contaminated with metal filings. Two of the crankshaft bearings were damaged which seems to have been the source of the metal filings. These have then caused damage to the pistons and liners. So we are talking about a full engine rebuild.
The guys in Hartech aren't quite sure what caused the damage to the bearings but reckon over heating to be the most likely cause and ruled out the crash as a likely cause of the damage.
Will keep you updated with their progress.
Diesel130 said:
halo997 said:
...ruled out the crash as a likely cause of the damage.
Thanks for the update. Could it have been the other way around. Engine seizes up and car decelerates unexpectedly and someone hit it up the back??Edited by Diesel130 on Monday 18th October 09:38
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