Can you increase Aston's V12 engine rev limiter?

[polar8]

I keep hitting the rev limiter in the V12V (best part of the day TBH) and I recall someone on Pistonheads mentioning Aston should work toward a higher rev range limit for their V12s. Can you imagine the sound of Aston's V12s at 9,000 revs? Is there anyone out there that can do this? Maybe some kind of remap? I'd be interested... I'm sure the engine can take it (?) and I know it will immediately invalidate warranty, but surely owners of Vanqs, DBS, V12Vs etc would love to hear that engine scream up at that level...?

Any ideas? thanks

[V8LM]

polar8 said:

Can you imagine the sound of Aston's V12s at 9,000 revs? Is there anyone out there that can do this? Maybe some kind of remap? I'd be interested... I'm sure the engine can take it (?)

Interested to know why you think it can take it. Why stop at 9? Why not stop at 10? Or 11? Or 20?

And what would be the use without changing the transmission?

[clorenzen]

I have never in the more than 4500 miles driven in the V12 Vantage hit the rev limiter. How do you manage to do that - don't you change gears.?

[Mako V12V]

I'd also like to ruin my lovely V12 engine by revving the dogs off it....can someone please tell me how j can do this?!

[stanwan]

polar8 said:

I keep hitting the rev limiter in the V12V (best part of the day TBH) and I recall someone on Pistonheads mentioning Aston should work toward a higher rev range limit for their V12s. Can you imagine the sound of Aston's V12s at 9,000 revs? Is there anyone out there that can do this? Maybe some kind of remap? I'd be interested... I'm sure the engine can take it (?) and I know it will immediately invalidate warranty, but surely owners of Vanqs, DBS, V12Vs etc would love to hear that engine scream up at that level...?

Any ideas? thanks

Unfortunately it's never that simple. Unless your engine is desgined to produce torque at high rpm all you are going to blow your engine up earlier. Yes you can remove the rev limit, but it would be pointless...

[Murph7355]

The long thing that sticks out the centre console and looks like Terminator 2's arm is the gear stick. This is the answer to not hitting the limiter (unless you're hitting it in 6th regularly. In which case, you won't be on the streets long enough to raise the limit).

Revs kill engines. It'll be set where it is to give a decent chance of living a long life without silly service intervals/costs.

Don't believe anyone can mod the Aston ecu's yet, and the limiter will be set there.

[bogie]

the torque/power is already dropping off by the limiter so no point other than noise

downsides as already mentioned ....if you fancy rebuild times measured in hours, rather than years then im sure you could get it fudged like some of the aftermarket tuners do

if you want more noise, just get some sports cats and a tubi exhaust

[michael gould]

polar8 said:

I keep hitting the rev limiter in the V12V (best part of the day TBH) and I recall someone on Pistonheads mentioning Aston should work toward a higher rev range limit for their V12s. Can you imagine the sound of Aston's V12s at 9,000 revs? Is there anyone out there that can do this? Maybe some kind of remap? I'd be interested... I'm sure the engine can take it (?) and I know it will immediately invalidate warranty, but surely owners of Vanqs, DBS, V12Vs etc would love to hear that engine scream up at that level...?

Any ideas? thanks

what a very strange post

[The Pits]

Polar8 is a man after my own heart. The main reason I don't have a V12V or DBS is that, for me (and for the money) I think the engine could be even more inspirational with just another 500 revs. For the reasons why, you have merely to drive (and hear) an Lamborghini L640.

Clearly very few here value the benefits of a higher revving V12. Aston have tuned the car to pull from nothing but personally I'd happily sacrifice some of the bottom end (only useful for lugging around town and being a lazy driver) for some extra top end excitement. A huge part of owning a V12 versus say a supercharged V8 is the noise a V12 makes. Given that noise is particularly special above 6k revs I have to say the DBS I drove felt like the rev limiter was set a little low which was the cause of some frustration. Particularly because engine felt far from giving up the ghost at that point.

I totally get that the limit is there to promote longevity and to help make an Aston a usable car capable of running to high mileages but the longevity of the engine would be barely threatened with another 500 revs, however my enjoyment would be considerably improved. Given the actual annual mileages most £140k cars do, I think it would be a worthwhile trade off. In the DB9 is more appropriate, but I think the top performance Astons should rev higher to further differentiate them and their engines.

I have to say the posts I find strange are those from people owning a car like the V12 Vantage or DBS, which is above all an emotional purchase, to be so rational and emotionless when it comes to using their engines. 'Never once hitting the rev limiter' in a car built purely for driving pleasure is far more peculiar to me.

I also find the sarchasm a bit unpleasant and a bit schoolyard.

[CamL]

Quite interesting, my Vanquish S developes 520bhp at 7000rpm as standard and I note the DBS develops its 510bhp at 6500rpm. What does the DBS/V12V actually redline at? The extra 500 revs on the Vanq comes at the cost of 6 monthly service intervals of course.

[michael gould]

The Pits said:

Polar8 is a man after my own heart. The main reason I don't have a V12V or DBS is that, for me (and for the money) I think the engine could be even more inspirational with just another 500 revs. For the reasons why, you have merely to drive (and hear) an Lamborghini L640.

Clearly very few here value the benefits of a higher revving V12. Aston have tuned the car to pull from nothing but personally I'd happily sacrifice some of the bottom end (only useful for lugging around town and being a lazy driver) for some extra top end excitement. A huge part of owning a V12 versus say a supercharged V8 is the noise a V12 makes. Given that noise is particularly special above 6k revs I have to say the DBS I drove felt like the rev limiter was set a little low which was the cause of some frustration. Particularly because engine felt far from giving up the ghost at that point.

I totally get that the limit is there to promote longevity and to help make an Aston a usable car capable of running to high mileages but the longevity of the engine would be barely threatened with another 500 revs, however my enjoyment would be considerably improved. Given the actual annual mileages most £140k cars do, I think it would be a worthwhile trade off. In the DB9 is more appropriate, but I think the top performance Astons should rev higher to further differentiate them and their engines.

I have to say the posts I find strange are those from people owning a car like the V12 Vantage or DBS, which is above all an emotional purchase, to be so rational and emotionless when it comes to using their engines. 'Never once hitting the rev limiter' in a car built purely for driving pleasure is far more peculiar to me.

I also find the sarchasm a bit unpleasant and a bit schoolyard.

oooooo errrr are you two boys in a relationship ??

[simonpieman]

The Pits - good comments.

I've only driven a V12V once, and hit the rev limiter. It was at Millbrook on the 1 mile straight trying to get as close to 170mph as I could. The instructor indicated to me when I should change up. On one of the changes, at c.130mph, we hit the rev limiter quite significantly, loosing power and time. What this says to me is that the instructer's natural instinct was perhaps that there should be room for more revs.

Anyway, we got to 165mph (although I'm sure I saw 166mph flash up).

Irrespective of rev limiter debate, IMO the V12V is an astonishing car.

[Mako V12V]

michael gould said:

oooooo errrr are you two boys in a relationship ??

Michael - stop being sarcastic
LOL

The Pits - i can see where you are coming from but surely a good majority of caring V12V owners dont want to shorten engine longevity or increase servicing costs by regularly hitting the red line. IMO the engine note sounds superb at all revs up to the red line and should i want more 'noise' then a louder exhaust would be the way to go rather than risking engine damage.

[RichB]

CamL said:

Quite interesting, my Vanquish S develops 520bhp at 7000rpm as standard and I note the DBS develops its 510bhp at 6500rpm. What does the DBS/V12V actually redline at? The extra 500 revs on the Vanq comes at the cost of 6 monthly service intervals of course.

That's irrelevant, you want to change gear when you have passed maximum torque but when you believe you will drop back into the high part of the torque band. Obviously max bhp will be at max revs, that's the nature of the relationship between bhp and revs but torque is what gives you acceleration. Simply red-lining the car will not necessarily mean you out accelerate a similar car more expertly driven.

[MartinV12]

RichB said:

That's irrelevant, you want to change gear when you have passed maximum torque but when you believe you will drop back into the high part of the torque band. Obviously max bhp will be at max revs, that's the nature of the relationship between bhp and revs but torque is what gives you acceleration. Simply red-lining the car will not necessarily mean you out accelerate a similar car more expertly driven.

Sorry, but IMHO that is not true.

Can a diesel powered car with let's say 600 Nm of torque and 300 bhp out accelerate a high reving petrol powered car with only 400 Nm but 400 bhp ? I don't think so. It's the maximum engine power output (=torque x rpm) that is most important for optimal acceleration. Of course the two numbers are related.

PS: formula 1 engines do have only ~400 Nm of torque.

BTT: Owning other cars with high reving engines, I'd of course love the AM V12 engine to rev a bit higher but its just fine as it is now. I really couldn't care less.

Edited by MartinV12 on Friday 10th September 13:25

[polar8]

clorenzen said:

I have never in the more than 4500 miles driven in the V12 Vantage hit the rev limiter. How do you manage to do that - don't you change gears.?

Thats tragic.

[Adam2S]

I would never red line my car normally but I have already done it once when overtaking. The problem was that the car sounded and felt like it had more to give in that gear and thus my brain didn't tell me change in time and so I hit the rev limiter. Quite a nasty experience as the sudden deceleration is quite dramatic and I really wouldn't want to do it again, but it certainly kicks in quicker than you would expect if you aren't watching the tachometer.

Im not sure if another 500rpm would have made the difference or not but regardless if it shortens engine life or increases servicing intervals then I for one wouldn't want it.

[michael gould]

I havn't hit the rev limiter on my DB9 yet either.......now I'm not sure if I'm sad, sarcastic or a combination of the two !!!!......Im going to valve bounce my car all the way home !!!

[The Pits]

Come off it. You're happy to spend £140k on a toy and you're worried about servicing costs?!

500 revs would have little effect on the longevity of the engine but a disproportionately large effect on the driving enjoyment.

I have no trouble believing that the V12V is wonderful as it is. The DBS was everything I wanted the DB9 to be and more.

But for me to begin to think about spending £140k on a 2 seater, and the subsequent months spent in the doghouse, a car has to be absolutely perfect in every way.

Sadly I have yet to find the time to drive a V12V and I suspect it comes pretty damn close to my idea of perfect. So much so I'm continually stalking the ph classifieds but I have yet to take the plunge.

If it had 550bhp @ 7000 with a 7400 redline I'd be powerless before it. Of course 600bhp+ @ 8000 would be even nicer but I'd settle for the former.

It's not about making more noise (quantity), it's about making a greater range of ever more wonderful noises (quality), something a V12 is uniquely able to offer.

To my knowledge a Murcielago doesn't require 6 monthly interval, and the Lambo V12 is quite capable of running up high mileages (see Evo's long term car). So the engine longevity argument doesn't hold water, at least not for 500 rpm more.

[RichB]

MartinV12 said:

RichB said:

That's irrelevant, you want to change gear when you have passed maximum torque but when you believe you will drop back into the high part of the torque band. Obviously max bhp will be at max revs, that's the nature of the relationship between bhp and revs but torque is what gives you acceleration. Simply red-lining the car will not necessarily mean you out accelerate a similar car more expertly driven.

Sorry, but IMHO that is not true.

Can a diesel powered car with let's say 600 Nm of torque and 300 bhp out accelerate a high reving petrol powered car with only 400 Nm but 400 bhp ? I don't think so. It's the maximum engine power output (=torque x rpm) that is most important for optimal acceleration. Of course the two numbers are related.

PS: formula 1 engines do have only ~400 Nm of torque.

Surely you're agreeing with me, or perhaps I didn't explain myself? But if you get solid torque say between 2,000 - 4,000 revs but it tails off steeply towards 6,000 revs and is gone by 6,500 then there is no point in red-lining the car to 6,500 because you will gain time by changing earlier to stay in the torque band. If you want to hit 170 mph flat out I agree just rev the nut soff it but if you want to accelerate you'll lose time.