UK's obsession with degrees

[I lick windows]

I, for one, do not understand this. It seems these days that you need a degree to push a broom - in fact, probably most of the broom pushers around here already have a degree ( arts, or some other useless twaddle, hence the broom). Looking through job pages, I see plenty of jobs advertised for this or that requiring this degree or that, whereas these same or similar roles 10 or 15 years ago did not require a visit to a uni. Also the jobs advertised usually pay a pittance when you consider the years studying and the effort required to get the (un)necessary qualification. Like a recent example on here http://www.cloudamber.com/about/careers.aspx £18 - 22K for a Computer Science Grad - FFS!!

As you can probably tell, I don't have a degree, but, I am in worldwide demand for my services (Aircraft Engineer) and earn in the region of £70K, my eldest son (26) is qualified as an Aircraft Mechanic, again in demand and on about £800/wk.
So my question is, why spend several years going to uni, come out owing thousands to the government, only to (if your lucky) land a job that pays a pittance? I realise that later on in life someone that has 'the right degree' in the right role can move up the ladder and earn a lot more than I do, but surely these people must be in the minority?

Don't intend to offend anybody, just doesn't make sense to me

[Guvna]

I think most people use it as an excuse to get pissed and have fun for a few years before joining the world.

[W1TAK]

Ive also managed to survive without a degree although everyone I work with has one and I sometimes feel inadequate.

A manager once said to me , it doesnt matter what paperwork you come into this job with its what you do when you get here, unfortunately you cant get into alot of jobs with this so called paperwork

I do regret not having three years at uni smoking pot though!

[peepsy]

Guvna said:

I think most people use it as an excuse to get pissed and have fun for a few years before joining the world.

This!

And not aiming this at anyone in this thread but it tends to be people who haven't got degree's that go on about it. There is more than one way to skin a cat, some people go to uni some go straight into work. In my field professional exams are the norm so employers want to see a potential employee can study!

[Engineer1]

Because El Tony decided that 50% of school leavers would go to uni, so circa 40% of young people have degrees. oh yeah and 12 A*s at GCSE and 4 grade A Alevels. So a job that used to be good A level grades as an entry requirement now has to be degree level to gain someone of similar intelligence and skills.

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

Guvna said:

I think most people use it as an excuse to get pissed and have fun for a few years before joining the world.

...spot on..


..and unless you're a real dork the 2:1 comes out as a by-product.

[grumbledoak]

Because "Education, Education, Education" got Blair elected and he wanted to appear to succeed. At any cost.

Which our kids will pay.

[jimmyjimjim]

If you think it's bad in the UK, you want to try it in the US - you really will get ignored for pretty much any serious job if you do not have a degree. In the UK you can join a company at the bottom and work up to a senior position. In the US, no chance; if you get to a point where a degree is asked for, no manner of other experience and skill will get you that role.

[Sheets Tabuer]

Tell me about it, I saw a job for part time tech support 9-3. Great I thought, just the thing to stop me talking to myself and I'll be home in time for my son when he gets in plus it is extra cash for toys.

Seems my years in IT isn't enough and I needed a degree.

[Chris Hinds]

It's an odd obsession - I don't think you need a degree to do many jobs, I think it's looked at as a way of differentiating those that are able to learn for themselves compared to those that have been taught to pass GCSE/A-Level exams. I'm also referring to those degrees that have genuine academic and society value like Engineering, Maths, Science, Classics or a foreign language.

Myself, I did an Engineering M.Eng (Manufacturing Engineering and Management) at Warwick and got a 1st when I left. I also sat on the exec of three societies and worked for the Student Union and Arts Centre as a venue technician. I didn't spend three years drinking and I did make friends for life. University certainly broadened my horizons but I've learned far more since I left as well.

As for the salary, well when I graduated 4 years ago it was £25k starting, I've added a reasonable amount to that since and I'm happy with that to be honest - I'm more motivated by having a job that I enjoy than the money that I get for it. You spend 40 hours a week working, it's not worth being bored and unengaged for that length of time.

Regards

Chris

[mph1977]

here's another one to chuck in the pot on such discussion

how many of the " we don't need no steenkinggg degrees " merchants have a HNC or HND ( or another NQF level 4 or 5 qualification ) ... bearing in mind that an honours degree is a NQF level 6 qualification and A-levels / and 'ordinary' BTEC NDs are Level 3?

[bogie]

yeah, its a strange obsession for many

education doesnt necessarily mean money or earning power though

there are some surveys of millionaires that have been done for numerous books and most reckon that 60% dont have degrees

most of the richest men in history left school at 16 to do their own thing

exams are good, if you want to be in "the system"

or a traditional "profession" that requires bits of paper

none of which guarantee anything ...Ive worked with plenty of poor middle class professionals and also know plenty of working class millionaire businessmen

[NiceCupOfTea]

I lick windows said:

( arts, or some other useless twaddle

I lick windows said:

Don't intend to offend anybody, just doesn't make sense to me

Apart from arts graduates?

Some degrees are vocational - they're not all done to "get a job". I agree that there is an obsession with going to University. You don't need it for many careers, and you would be better off doing an apprenticeship or getting a 3 year headstart in work experience.

However, many people go to University for the experience - learning to live on your own, manage yourself, "life" education - the subject is often immaterial, demonstrated by many graduates going on to work in a different field. It can also help to focus the mind on what subject one is interested in. I learned a lot about myself at University and changed my mind about what I wanted to do for a living.

Without going too far off topic, please don't dismiss arts graduates. There's a quote that I can't quite remember or attribute at the moment that says; while the sciences tell us what and how, the arts tell us why.

[TooLateForAName]

<---Dork

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

Guvna said:

I think most people use it as an excuse to get pissed and have fun for a few years before joining the world.

...spot on..


..and unless you're a real dork the 2:1 comes out as a by-product.

[ExChrispy Porker]

If you are an athlete, the only way to access the best coaches and facilities is by attending a good sporting university. It is a daft system but there you are.

[TSCfree]

Last time I looked at the aircraft industry it was dying on its arse, shedding jobs left right and centre. I agree, when looking to transfer across experience counts for nothing. The aircraft licence(which I assume you have, 70K?) is the golden ticket and I believe it is degree level. For practical jobs bring back apprentices.

[Dixie68]

TSCfree said:

Last time I looked at the aircraft industry it was dying on its arse, shedding jobs left right and centre. I agree, when looking to transfer across experience counts for nothing. The aircraft licence(which I assume you have, 70K?) is the golden ticket and I believe it is degree level. For practical jobs bring back apprentices.

Degrees aren't the be-all and end-all everywhere though - in my current position I'm a Lead Engineer and many of the people under me are Engineering graduates. Whilst I've been a technician and then engineer for all of my working life it was in a different area, (avionics), than my current job, (rail). My current employer values my previous experience as a working engineer over any certificates. Indeed no graduate who hasn't also got a proven work record behind him/her would get a job other than "assistant to..." in my company.

[markcoznottz]

grumbledoak said:

Because "Education, Education, Education" got Blair elected and he wanted to appear to succeed. At any cost.

Which our kids will pay.

Just console yourself that although hes achieved what he wanted to do, mix with the rich and famous and hes aquired the wealth he desired, his wifes a fking pig. .

[AJS-]

In fairness I don't think the UK is especially obsessed with degrees compared with most other countries. Here in Thailand MBAs are fairly normal for most professional positions. I know that France, Greece and Italy also have massive numbers of people with endless qualifications, for no real reason.

[TVRWazzock]

I graduated with an electronics degree in 1982 and have spent that last 27 years designing integrated circuits for both aerospace and communications. Alot of the work has involved Digital Signal Processing, which I learnt the basics of at university, therefore a degree in electronics is not essential but usefull for my line of work.

Thing is I have work with many engineers who have'nt got a degree but are more than capable of doing the job.